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Soren
Senior Member
United States
499 posts
Joined: Mar, 2001
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 Posted - 2002/12/02 : 07:17:41
strychnine:
quote:
honestly, I've read quite a few posts from you guys about how you don't give a shit what people think of hardcore, and how much you don't want hardcore to become mainstream and commercial, yet here you are slagging off a (mainstream) dance-music magazine for publishing negative articles and features about hardcore.
I'm at arms because they started saying HHC is "all good" now, not becuase of past insults. I'm fine with them saying HHC blows all they want, i'm just at odds with this latest turn in their attitude without acknowledging their past insults.
quote:
Furthermore (and correct me if I'm wrong here), don't most of the offending articles refer to "happy hardcore", which you UK people insist is a different genre of music to the stuff being released now?
OK, THAT'S IT! LETS GO BURN DOWN THE UK! :D
Do they really say that? If so, good point. I'm "an ignorant american" so everything I say is just from that point of view.
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Wouldn't it then be valid for Viv to argue that the current crop of hardcore is somehow 'better' or more credible than the genre that Mixmag slagged off before?
Sure, if you think that adding a more progressive element to a musical genre makes is better and more credible. But didn't Viv just say progressive stuff sucks now? Or was that just last month?
quote:
don't complain when they do exactly what they're supposed to.
I don't mind the genre hopping one bit. But I think it's pretty silly/stupid to slag off a genre for years and then say it's great. There's a difference between genre hopping and ignoring certain ones and completely slagging off some genres one month and then saying they are great the next.
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But the problem is, you all seem to be attacking Mixmag as an institution
Yep, because IT IS and institution.
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when in fact (as Nick says) it's a composite of many different minds, different sets of values, etc.
Yes, and then strictly edited and censored.
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It's not just Mixmag, either; some people on this board attack genres of music in the same way. It's silly.
I totally agree.
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HHC was once (validly) slagged off as being too cheesy, too childish, and we accepted it because it was based on truth. We won't accept the same criticism now, will we?
We'll accept criticism just fine. We just don't like compliments coming from one of the biggest malefactors of the past without first presenting an appology.
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C'mon people, lighten up - if you can't laugh at yourselves, then who can you laugh at? No-one, that's who ... if you read that piece carefully and saw past the prima facie slating of HHC you'll see he also takes pot-shots at Trance, UKHH, Garage, and Progressive, as well as the rave/club scene in general.
That's fine, just don't expect love if you change your mind and say the Trance, UKHH, Garage, and Progressive, as well as the rave/club scene in general is great now and you love it.
It's like if A told B that B's mom was a friggin bitch cause he saw her at a store once and didn't like her dress. Then every 6 months or so when A sees B he says "Hey B, your Mom is a friggin bitch". Then that goes on for about 8 years until one day A hears that B's mom makes great apple pie and A goes up to B and says "Hey B, your Mom is cool! Can I have some pie?". NO YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY PIE UNTIL YOU SAY YOU'RE SORRY YOU BASTAGES! :D
Sorry, I like to tell stories. And no i'm not calling everyone at Mixmag bastages, i'm just being silly :D
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Happy Hardcore makes me feel like a koala bear just crapped a rainbow in my brain!
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Edited by - Soren on 2002/12/02 09:31:51 |
mcjutt
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
564 posts
Joined: Jul, 2002
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Posted - 2002/12/02 : 07:43:06
quote:
Originally posted by nick@mixmag:
On a lighter note - I wrote Hardcore's Will (page one of this forum) and I still think its funny today. Writing is meant to stir emotion and whether me caning HHC pisses you off or makes you laugh it has evoked a responce and thats what journalism (and music) is all about.
There are a lot of bitter people in this forum that fail to see that dance music is about having fun. Not being all serious and claiming scenes 'belong' to you.
If Viv allowed me to continue caning HHC I would. Remember a magazine - like a forum - is made up with lots of passionate people with lots of confilcting opinions. Mixmag is not a single entity and neither is HHC.
well basicly i do read mixmag and it does have some wicked articles, but its mainstream clubbing as we know and love, but how would people feel in mixmag if i said **** u to funky house **** u to deep house, and all the "superstar djs" ( except fergie he rules!) and so on i am going to get slated its obvious, but we care about our scene and thats why this whole arguement is going on, but if u come on to hardcore site and try and rectify ur selfs its gonna get argumentive, i repect mixmag and i do buy it every month and no doubt this could be an article in the next magazine, but we care as much as this about much as u do about ur music, to us this is a way of life were the true believers and we wont have it any other way!
get with my lyrics il make u sweat
im a bad boy mc youll never forget
the quickest mc u evr met
all my competion get set for a rough ride u cant even touch my vibe where all the raving crew tonight
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Shammmmmmmmmmmooooooooooone
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strychnine
Advanced Member
Australia
2,268 posts
Joined: Feb, 2002
92 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/12/02 : 13:36:16
quote:
Originally posted by Soren:
Sure, if you think that adding a more progressive element to a musical genre makes is better and more credible. But didn't Viv just say progressive stuff sucks now? Or was that just last month?
I didn't say it would necessarily be correct to argue that it is better or more credible than it was before. I only said it would be "valid", from a logical viewpoint.
quote:
I don't mind the genre hopping one bit. But I think it's pretty silly/stupid to slag off a genre for years and then say it's great. There's a difference between genre hopping and ignoring certain ones and completely slagging off some genres one month and then saying they are great the next.
^^ ummm ... isn't that what genre-hopping is all about?
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Yep, because IT IS and institution ... strictly edited and censored.
... and with every new editor in a magazine comes a change in editorial direction. Mixmag's no different.
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We'll accept criticism just fine. We just don't like compliments coming from one of the biggest malefactors of the past without first presenting an appology.
Then don't accept the compliment. Mixmag as a whole isn't written for the hardcore scene, so I neither want nor expect an apology from them. Nor do I pay all that much attention to their compliments.
quote:
It's like if A told B that B's mom was a friggin bitch cause he saw her at a store once and didn't like her dress. Then every 6 months or so when A sees B he says "Hey B, your Mom is a friggin bitch". Then that goes on for about 8 years until one day A hears that B's mom makes great apple pie and A goes up to B and says "Hey B, your Mom is cool! Can I have some pie?". NO YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY PIE UNTIL YOU SAY YOU'RE SORRY YOU BASTAGES! :D
A rather weak analogy, wouldn't you say? First off, Mixmag had a valid (if not necessarily correct) line of criticism against hardcore, as opposed to saying someone's mom is a bitch cuz he wears an ugly dress. It's more akin to A saying that he doesn't like B's mom's dress, then saying otherwise when the bitch finally gets a new dress. Second, I fail to see where Mixmag asks us for pie. 
My point with all this is that Mixmag caters to its audience, which isn't necessarily us. Telling them they should apologise to us for not giving us the credit we deserve just doesn't make economic sense, since it's not us who buy the friggin' mag in the first place - it'd be like the pop-trance scene asking happyhardcore.com (or several members thereof) to apologise for some of the less savoury things that have been said about that genre on this board.
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Hard2Get
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2002/12/02 : 14:25:17
OMG i don't think i have seen so many quotes in 1 thread :P
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strychnine
Advanced Member
Australia
2,268 posts
Joined: Feb, 2002
92 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/12/02 : 16:00:26
^^ yeah it's an unpleasant by-product of trying to have an in-depth discussion on a format that really isn't designed for the task.
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Edited by - strychnine on 2002/12/02 16:07:55 |
James D
Senior Member
United Kingdom
344 posts
Joined: Oct, 2002
76 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/12/02 : 22:16:18
i would continue to argue this point but i cant be arsed anymore ; )
i know im rite and thats all that matters
: )
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have you got some of this hardcore power?
let the bass beat louder....
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strychnine
Advanced Member
Australia
2,268 posts
Joined: Feb, 2002
92 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/12/02 : 22:52:17
*sigh*
James, you were out of this argument a long time ago - it looks like Soren's taken over
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silver
Admin
Japan
12,565 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/12/02 : 23:47:43
If topic says anything it says we all love hardcore with a passion :)
----------------------------------
you, me and hardcore forever.
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James D
Senior Member
United Kingdom
344 posts
Joined: Oct, 2002
76 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/12/03 : 00:45:25
silver - yeh ur rite, it does show that, and theres nothin wrong with that.
: )
strychnine i got bored of arguing as ur returns to my argument were never actually about the same point!
; )
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have you got some of this hardcore power?
let the bass beat louder....
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Soren
Senior Member
United States
499 posts
Joined: Mar, 2001
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Posted - 2002/12/03 : 04:30:38
quote:
I didn't say it would necessarily be correct to argue that it is better or more credible than it was before. I only said it would be "valid", from a logical viewpoint.
So logically if you add a progressive element to your music then it becomes more valid? I disagree.
quote:
... isn't that what genre-hopping is all about?
I guess if you are a jaded a-hole or just mean in general then sure. I've switched genres many times, i went from Trance to HHC to Acid Breaks to HHCto Jump Up to House to Nu Skool Breaks and now back to Trance+HHC and I don't go around blasting house and jungle cause I now listen to HHC+Trance. Just because you currently like something doesn't mean you have to bash everything else, that just makes no sense... unless of course you are a mean person.
quote:
and with every new editor in a magazine comes a change in editorial direction. Mixmag's no different
So if some trancer kid comes to HHC.com and Silver goes OFF on him about how ****** lame trance is and keeps insulting him then if Silver hands the site over to someone else then the kid has absolutely no right to be angry anymore? And if he comes back here and says "Hey, that last owner guy was totally rude" and then gives examples then everyone can just tell him to shove it cause Silver is gone now? Well sure you can do that. But it's not nice and it's not right.
Additionally, at least some if not all of the writers are still on board. So just becuase they have a different censor now means they never did anything wrong?
quote:
Then don't accept the compliment.
I didn't. Furthermore I asked for a boycott of their mag.
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Mixmag as a whole isn't written for the hardcore scene, so I neither want nor expect an apology from them.
Your opinion. Personally I think they owe us big time. But only if they wanna cover HHC. If they don't then whatever.
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A rather weak analogy, wouldn't you say? First off, Mixmag had a valid (if not necessarily correct) line of criticism against hardcore,
How is it valid? HHC is a direct descendant of the aardcore music that blew techno up on a global level and made their mag prosper. Back when aardcore was all cheese and Prodigy put out a darker more serious album Mixmag blasted them for "Killing Rave". But then they go and insult the same "cheesy" music they were defending a year before and continue to do so for almost a decade, but now like it again??? Mixmag has absolutely no basis for criticism and was NOT right in doing so. Not only do they have no basis for the slander, but the music (cheesy prog trance) that they have been lauding for the last 5 years or so is MORE "cheesy" than the HHC produced during this period. And, as mentioned by Viv, HHC has better production skills behind it.
So no. No I don't think they had any valid points to criticize. And if there were some valid points then they weren't addressed in favor of the ridiculous, outlandish, and derivative insults they did throw at the HHC scene.
quote:
I fail to see where Mixmag asks us for pie.
They want us to buy mags.
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My point with all this is that Mixmag caters to its audience, which isn't necessarily us.
Now it is.
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Telling them they should apologise to us for not giving us the credit we deserve just doesn't make economic sense
No it sure doesn't, but it's the right thing to do. Sure you can roll over and let some coorporation profit of of you after blasting HHC for years, but I don't think it's right. Econimic sensibility has nothing to do with any of my statements. I just want the world to be more fair and just. And I think that if Mixmag wants to start trying to profiteer of HHC then they should give HHC an appology first. I guess asking people and coorporations to own up to their actions is asking way too much. I guess people should just be able to do and say whatever they want as long as it makes "economic sense" and they have shed loads of money. I mean that is the way the world works, and why try to change it right? (Soren zooms out a bit) Letting money grubbing, greedy, angry people just run us over and rule the world is a great idea and serves us well.
I guess I still believe in PLUR. Or maybe I'm one of the only people left in the world with morals, but is asking for an appology for previous slander really that much?
quote:
it'd be like the pop-trance scene asking happyhardcore.com (or several members thereof) to apologise for some of the less savoury things that have been said about that genre on this board.
And if the people that "dissed" trance in the past suddenly said it was great and tried to make money off of it then I think it'd be perfectly acceptable for the people that got insulted to ask for an appology. Don't you?
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Happy Hardcore makes me feel like a Koala bear just crapped a rainbow in my brain.
__________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
Happy Hardcore makes me feel like a Koala bear just crapped a rainbow in my brain.
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Edited by - Soren on 2002/12/03 04:40:20 |
Oli G
Advanced Member
United States
1,817 posts
Joined: Oct, 2001
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Posted - 2002/12/03 : 04:55:12
I still hate mixmag magaxine, this is just personal opinion.. however i dont slag them for eposing hardcore or releasing a cd on the front cover as it gives the scene more exposure and sells us/me more records :)
on the same note
CAMEL RECORDS 001 OUT FEB2003
Cheers :D
p.s yes i did post a previous post in this topic against mixmag.. and i still dont like the magazine.. but it still didnt say stay out of it, etc... im randomly open minded... (hence why i read the magazine first a few issues before making my mind up about it)
CAM001 Out FEB2003
Distribution Through Nu Energy
www.camelrecords.co.uk
\o/ <o/ \o> <o> /o\ _o/ \o_
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Hardcore Underground 4 - Released October 19th
http://www.myspace.com/camelrecords
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RaverBaby69
Average Member
United Kingdom
234 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2002/12/03 : 07:59:34
I don't dislike the magazine either but I do think however, that being two faced about the scene is pretty downright rude and unpleasent and that does suck ass big time!!!! An apology is owed I think before anymore articles about hardcore are included in your magazine (and I don't just mean a small apology on the front) If you are going to publisise hardcore please make sure you do it well because if u do it wrong u'll just make the scene look bad and possibly do bad things to it. If you have any bad opinions about hardcore please don't express them inside your magazine just keep your mouth shut about it, its not nice and you certainly wouldn't like it if it was the other way around.
Going off the topic slightly here: something has to be done about flip and fills work, I'm trying hard not to critisize it now but I do believe that they should give credit to happy hardcore and make it clear that that is where they got there inspirations from.
"I'm having the best time being off my pickle and feelin the music"
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"I'm having the best time being off my pickle and feelin the music"
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mcjutt
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
564 posts
Joined: Jul, 2002
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Posted - 2002/12/03 : 08:40:09
serious dont say anything about flip and fill there be another 50 posts coming in
get with my lyrics il make u sweat
im a bad boy mc youll never forget
the quickest mc u evr met
all my competion get set for a rough ride u cant even touch my vibe where all the raving crew tonight
__________________________________
Shammmmmmmmmmmooooooooooone
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RaverBaby69
Average Member
United Kingdom
234 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2002/12/03 : 08:48:04
I tried not to but it was hard 2 resist since viv@mixmag mentioned them in one of her posts
"I'm having the best time being off my pickle and feelin the music"
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strychnine
Advanced Member
Australia
2,268 posts
Joined: Feb, 2002
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Posted - 2002/12/03 : 13:08:26
quote:
Originally posted by Soren:
So logically if you add a progressive element to your music then it becomes more valid? I disagree.
*bangs head against wall*
Again, you misunderstand. I'm not talking about validity of the music itself, but of the argument: if a genre of music has developed over time, becoming more refined and whatnot, is it not valid for one to then rethink his/her assessment of that genre, taking into account the considerable changes that have occurred?
quote:
I guess if you are a jaded a-hole or just mean in general then sure ... Just because you currently like something doesn't mean you have to bash everything else, that just makes no sense... unless of course you are a mean person.
A lot of house-heads and trance-addicts are *******s and mean people, keen to jump on any genre or subgenre that isn't the
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