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NekoShuffle
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts
Joined: Nov, 2009
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 Posted - 2011/02/09 : 15:46:57
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
Why is everyone so conservative? He might be arrogant but that doesn't mean he's a bad person. It's just a part of his personality, like when someone is shy.
Also I'd be wondering what image your track would get if it got played by DJ Rankin or anyone similar, and I think that's what he means!
Doesn't matter what your personality is when you start being harsh to other people and calling them ****s you should keep it to yourself.
And to be honest if you judge a track by the DJ who plays it then you probably don't have much of a clue about music. Yes DJ ranking was a poor 'DJ' but when you consider the amount of people who enjoyed his mixes I think that's the main thing, even if it doesn't give him any 'DJ points' A good track will shine through no matter how poorly it's mixed/murdered.
Oh and don't accuse people of being conservative when you're extremely closed minded yourself as evidenced!
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Revs
Advanced Member
Austria
2,583 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2011/02/09 : 16:06:12
Why am I closed minded?
And I disagree, he has turned some really good tracks into proper shit, and that obviously made them sound bad. Which means if you've heard the song for the first time the "image" or idea of the track you will get, will be just as crap as what he's done with it!
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NekoShuffle
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts
Joined: Nov, 2009
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Posted - 2011/02/09 : 16:17:23
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
Why am I closed minded?
And I disagree, he has turned some really good tracks into proper shit, and that obviously made them sound bad. Which means if you've heard the song for the first time the "image" or idea of the track you will get, will be just as crap as what he's done with it!
Tell that to all the people that got into hardcore because of his tracks!
And you're closed minded because you just admitted to judging music by the DJ who spins it.
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Revs
Advanced Member
Austria
2,583 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2011/02/09 : 16:57:50
No - but it's part of it. I've often heard tracks being played on shows or elsewhere which made me crazy, but when I bought them, I was disappointed. I've heard mashups which were driving the crowds nuts but where both tracks that were used didn't sound that good when alone, but just empty and boring. If it's a rare track and I don't even know the name, chances that I will hear it again aren't very big and therefore the image that will be left in my head of this particular track will stay like that. That's nothing to do with being conservative...
I have tons of tracks where I've cut out half of it because it sounded so crap and used what was left to layer it over something else, and finally turned it into something listenable.
But I think that wasn't really the point...
Imo what Deadmau5 is talking about is just true. His point, I guess, are the DJ's that don't do anything but just play one track after another and then wait 5 minutes for the next outro to come, just to play another mass-produced piece of crap. DJing is just too easy, you learn it in what.. 1-2 weeks? And these 12 years-old Kids who are calling themselves "DJ's" just to be cool but actually haven't really done anything yet, are what make him angry! True talent and potential will be found in productions, not in DJing. That's like saying "Hey look at me I know how to eat with a fork, I'm a ****ing genius" - ANYONE can do that! Now turntablism of course is something else...
And one thing that wasn't mentioned but that is important imo is, that he uses the term "DJ" in relation to what it means nowadays - pretty much nothing. Because since Virtual DJ was invented, everyone is a DJ. So when he says "DJ" he means exactly THAT type of DJ's (those who suck and do nothing, that means 99%).
Of course there are good DJs out there who don't produce, and therefore automatically play other's tracks, I just think he expressed himself not very correctly and his message is missunderstandable - but I do get his point.
Now think a bit - If it wasn't like that, that would be an insult towards himself, since he aswell is a DJ.
End of the story.
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Edited by - Revs on 2011/02/09 17:04:07 |
NekoShuffle
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts
Joined: Nov, 2009
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Posted - 2011/02/09 : 18:22:16
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
Imo what Deadmau5 is talking about is just true. His point, I guess, are the DJ's that don't do anything but just play one track after another and then wait 5 minutes for the next outro to come, just to play another mass-produced piece of crap. DJing is just too easy, you learn it in what.. 1-2 weeks? And these 12 years-old Kids who are calling themselves "DJ's" just to be cool but actually haven't really done anything yet, are what make him angry! True talent and potential will be found in productions, not in DJing. That's like saying "Hey look at me I know how to eat with a fork, I'm a ****ing genius" - ANYONE can do that! Now turntablism of course is something else...
And one thing that wasn't mentioned but that is important imo is, that he uses the term "DJ" in relation to what it means nowadays - pretty much nothing. Because since Virtual DJ was invented, everyone is a DJ. So when he says "DJ" he means exactly THAT type of DJ's (those who suck and do nothing, that means 99%).
Think of it this way - people are free to do as they please, and if it wasn't for the wealth and sheer number of DJs around the world playing electronic music in clubs, fields, warehouses, on the internet, on the radio, in their bedrooms, at bars, in hotels and so on we wouldn't have half the scene we have today, and that applies to every single genre.
People who get annoyed by unskilled DJs are just jealous that someone less talented than them could possibly get more attention than they do. People need to get rid of this elitist attitude, it's variety and diversity that sets our music free, not conflict and looking down our nose at people.
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Revs
Advanced Member
Austria
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Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2011/02/09 : 18:50:54
No I'm not annoyed because less skilled "DJs" get more attention, I'm annoyed because they ruin our scene and don't even do it for the music but just for being "in" ...
Also, why would I want some negative attention... just because George Bush got a lot of (bad) criticism (which requires attention first), it doesn't mean I'd like to be him...
Check this out by the way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXXzUB-vaPk
And no I disagree with you - There were less DJ's 15-20 years ago, but the scenes were bigger and apparently (I can only juge from what I've heard as I didn't experience the 90s) it was more "powerfull" and people seemed to be more passioned for the music. You say the scenes are bigger, but is that really true? Is House really House? Isn't the newer stuff more like RnB or even POP? Yes it is, and that's the reason why people think the scene is bigger, it isn't bigger it's just not the same genre anymore and that's why people who would listen to RnB will now listen to "House", but that's completely wrong. Do you see what I mean? So you will have the people who listen to House minus those who can't stand it anymore plus all of the ones who listen to RnB and who now think they like House. Now I won't even mention Hardcore because that's not even close as big as it was but I think everyone knows this. At least it's starting to get bigger now but then again a quarter of these Ravers probably go to these Events for the Hardstyle or the Gabber, and not the Happy Hardcore and another quarter don't even know what's the music being played there. When I saw Luna-C last year I met some people who didn't even know who Luna-C was, they were just there because they're always in that club and because they just go to every event that has an "undergroundish" image, no matter if Hardtekno, Drum & Bass or Hardstyle is being played.
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,153 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2011/02/09 : 19:22:46
everyone is closed mind in someway, so stfu before i call you dickless idiots.
and before that goes back to me, Im just an idiot with an appetite for hardcore music :)
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Edited by - Samination on 2011/02/09 19:23:21 |
NekoShuffle
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts
Joined: Nov, 2009
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Posted - 2011/02/09 : 20:47:42
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
No I'm not annoyed because less skilled "DJs" get more attention, I'm annoyed because they ruin our scene and don't even do it for the music but just for being "in" ...
And how does that ruin the scene? Sorry mate but you're from Austria, you don't really have much of a clue about the scene.
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
And no I disagree with you - There were less DJ's 15-20 years ago, but the scenes were bigger and apparently (I can only juge from what I've heard as I didn't experience the 90s) it was more "powerfull" and people seemed to be more passioned for the music. You say the scenes are bigger, but is that really true? Is House really House? Isn't the newer stuff more like RnB or even POP? Yes it is,
No it isn't, I keep up with the house scene and it's nothing like RnB or pop, I think you might just be listening to RnB and Pop music.
What 'scene' are you even talking about? Electronic music as a whole is bigger yes, in individual genres it depends. Trance was very niche when it started, now it's huge. Hardcore was very big in the early 90s, now it's relatively small.
Stop trying to put barriers between the people and the music. It's not a requirement for ravers or ANYBODY to know about the music before they go to a rave, have you not heard of trying something new? Let people have the music, stop being so elitist. The more people who like it, the better.
Music is meant to be ENJOYED by EVERYONE. The more DJs, the more open the music can be and the more people can enjoy it, why take that away from them?
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DJseaking
Average Member
Canada
242 posts
Joined: Jul, 2010
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Posted - 2011/02/09 : 23:06:23
I've met him in person, talked to him. Seen him live, hes passes as arrogant in that interview simply because of the statement, considering the amount of fame he does have, hes quite down to earth and is no different from anyone else, even with all the praise he gets
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BPM? Its over 9000!!!
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djDMS
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
10,304 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
572 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2011/02/09 : 23:32:18
It IS possible to be both talented AND an arsehole
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Taking my time to perfect the beat
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Lilley
Advanced Member
Australia
3,740 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2011/02/10 : 12:25:04
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
It IS possible to be both talented AND an arsehole
In fact they often come together
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nearly in line....
.....strange continuity problems
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Revs
Advanced Member
Austria
2,583 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2011/02/10 : 12:27:00
We have a pretty big House and Drum & Bass scene but whatever...
Of course the Electronic Music scene is bigger, but what does that include? Pop like stuff from La Roux can now be considered as Electronic Dance Music aswell because it's all made on computers, and I don't hear any real Drums or other real instruments like Pop had back in the 70s-80s..
And saying today's House is nothing like RnB is just completely wrong - I keep up with it aswell and know pretty much everything about it: Just look at David Guetta, he used to have one of the Labels with the best tracks that ever got released, his mixes where the shit and nothing commercial, and what is he now? He's a ****ing popstar. What he does, isn't even produced by him, and his music is just not House anymore! Or take a look at all the commercial "House" stuff, how is that not being totally influenced by RnB? It takes all elements from it, terrible vocals that make no sense, RnB-type Breakbeats (not saying Breakbeats are bad..) which have this typical RnB-Rhythm, the fat, pushing sine waves have disappeared and have been replaced by a Bassline which appears only here and there, the kicks aren't punchy at all anymore, even a Hardcore Snare these days is harder than a House kick...
Trance is huge now because it's become very minimal, and I think everyone here agrees if I say that everything after 2005 can't be really considered as Trance anymore... Just look at Sensation White, which was originally a Trance event, and has now turned into a some kind of House/RnB event, or look at all the big Trance names like Paul van Dyk, Armin van Buuren or Tiesto, that's really nothing like Trance (and don't tell me genres evolve, sure they do but this is not evolving this is fusing with other genres and finally completely changing into something that has nothing to do with what it used to be before = no evolution there, that's like monkeys who evolved and should become humains but instead of becoming humains they transforme into crocodiles).
And yes I agree everyone should listen to what he likes and what he enjoys - but when there's not much to choose from, well you don't actually have much choice! I mean, how shitty can music really become? It's the 'Top Guns' (sorry for being a Smoogie) who control all of that, and who decide what's in and what's not, and that's a path the mainstream will follow - it's also all a "getting-used-to-it"-thing: If you listen only to tracks between the speed of 125-135 BPM for five months, Hardcore will just sound incredibly fast - But now it doesn't, it sounds like normal speed, and House for example will sound slower (also when listening just after having listened to a Hardcore track, which is normal because it's a fact that it's slower). But then if you really get used to it, it won't really sound slower because your brain is so fast that it already analysed the track and changed it's "setting", you could say. It's kind of the same with genres, people who listen to simple, crap music, will enjoy it and won't see the problem, because that's the only thing they know and they've ever heard. Simple music will enter easily in your ears and will be easy to remember. Complicated music on the other hand, needs the brain to concentrate - unexpected elements coming from all sides and confusing you at first - but then when you get used to it, you will know what could come now or then, and then at some time you will reach a point where this isn't complicated music for you anymore but just "normal" music, because, again, you became used to it.
I can already feel that one day coming when we'll have more DJ's than ravers!
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Edited by - Revs on 2011/02/10 12:33:27 |
NekoShuffle
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts
Joined: Nov, 2009
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Posted - 2011/02/10 : 14:54:49
I think you need to open your eyes and look at electronic music in far more detail.
Hardcore is very small and when Darren Styles/Gammer/Hixxy etc. start making a certain kind of music, a large portion of hardcore DJs and producers follow suit. However in House, Trance, Drum n Bass etc. this does not apply:
In House, David Guetta is probably one of the more famous names but he's not the 'top of the scene' because there is no top of the scene. House is far too diverse for that. Roger Sanchez, David Guetta, Carl Cox, John Digweed, Sasha, Sharam, Deadmau5, DJ Pierre, Satoshi Tomiie, Armand Van Helden, Green Velvet - All of these are HUGE names yet they are all doing completely different things. Because House is simply that big.
Same with Trance, on the one hand you have Above and Beyond doing their more progressive slow, minimal stuff (Mainly because of their Anjunadeep project) then on the other you have Stoneface and Terminal throwing out some really pumping, driving tracks. Not everyone is trying to sound like Tiesto or Armin.
And Drum n Bass - a lesser example but both Spor and Subfocus are HUGE yet come from entirely different ends of the drum n bass spectrum.
It sounds to me like you really don't listen to much House/Trance at all if you think David Guetta (or anyone) is 'on top of the scene'. That's a very blinkered think to say and you really need to get properly involved in a genre before you start spouting off about it.
And don't be ridiculous, the average raver doesn't have a clue about DJing, they just like the music. You're looking at music as a whole from a very one-sided perspective.
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cruelcore1
Advanced Member
Croatia (Hrvatska)
1,485 posts
Joined: May, 2010
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Posted - 2011/02/10 : 15:22:11
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
Imo what Deadmau5 is talking about is just true. His point, I guess, are the DJ's that don't do anything but just play one track after another and then wait 5 minutes for the next outro to come, just to play another mass-produced piece of crap. DJing is just too easy, you learn it in what.. 1-2 weeks? And these 12 years-old Kids who are calling themselves "DJ's" just to be cool but actually haven't really done anything yet, are what make him angry! True talent and potential will be found in productions, not in DJing. That's like saying "Hey look at me I know how to eat with a fork, I'm a ****ing genius" - ANYONE can do that! Now turntablism of course is something else...
And one thing that wasn't mentioned but that is important imo is, that he uses the term "DJ" in relation to what it means nowadays - pretty much nothing. Because since Virtual DJ was invented, everyone is a DJ. So when he says "DJ" he means exactly THAT type of DJ's (those who suck and do nothing, that means 99%).
Of course there are good DJs out there who don't produce, and therefore automatically play other's tracks, I just think he expressed himself not very correctly and his message is missunderstandable - but I do get his point.
Now think a bit - If it wasn't like that, that would be an insult towards himself, since he aswell is a DJ.
It's true that nowadays DJs don't do too much, and it is much tougher to combine various loops and melodies with a bunch of effects, or just playing something and doing much good scratching (rare things imo), but DJs (even simple ones) and producers depend about each other. DJs promote producers and make them earn more money, while earning money themselves.
And if they hear a song badly played on a dancefloor, they wont dislike it for good. They'll forget about it 2 seconds later so as the tracks they liked after 30 seconds, and when they hear it again in a good mix, theyll luv it. And they wouldnt dload any of the songs anyway, cuz they mostly dunno how (either legally either illegally) =)
Refering to "ANYONE can do that!"
Well it also depends about the reflexes, but i partially agree. Why partially? Well, to learn how to DJ using Virtual DJ or anything, u first need to know how to turn on your computer.
Yeah, that was little hyperbolic, and srry 4 gettin off-topic, but rlly, the only knowledge of most of the nowadays modern teenagers are Facebook and MSN. Some don't even know how 2 turn on their computers.
And also, they don't have the potential.
Refering to: "And these 12 years-old Kids who are calling themselves "DJ's" just to be cool but actually haven't really done anything yet, are what make him angry! True talent and potential will be found in productions, not in DJing."
Lol, I'm known as my class's DJ, cuz I have DJ in my nickname; although my overall popularity isnt rlly big, it makes me cool.
DJ reputation amongst teenagers: mixing songs like this and that and going *chicka chicka* with a vinyl while people dance *bumpa dumpa* and *un-chi un-chi* on music that goes *bumpa dumpa* and *un-chi un-chi* with *chicka chicka*.
But in fact, I'm not rlly a DJ! I started DJing just recently. *bumpa dumpa* and *un-chi un-chi* mean nothing to me, and about *chicka chicka*, dude, I can barely make a perfect overlap! I'm a producer and nobody gives a shit about it (except my parents). And they always ask me if I made many "MIXES" and if i do *chicka chicka* and *un-chi un-chi*, and nobody has ever asked me "Dude, have u made another song yet?". And wherever i f***ing mention that I DO NOT MIX ANYMORE but make my own songs, they either get confused or uninterested. I mean, WTF is that! Doing *chicka chicka* and stuff like that is cool, and working hours like a horse just to make a decent f***ing supersaw and days to COMPLETE the song means NOTHING!
BTW, they seem to know nothing about both DJing and producing, and they arent even interested.
We'll never have more DJs than ravers. They just dont have the potential.
And that mix u guyz posted... He really did nothing xD.
Oh, and IMO our music is not weird, people r just being primitive.
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Edited by - cruelcore1 on 2011/02/10 15:37:40 |
Revs
Advanced Member
Austria
2,583 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2011/02/10 : 17:37:57
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
I think you need to open your eyes and look at electronic music in far more detail.
Hardcore is very small and when Darren Styles/Gammer/Hixxy etc. start making a certain kind of music, a large portion of hardcore DJs and producers follow suit. However in House, Trance, Drum n Bass etc. this does not apply:
In House, David Guetta is probably one of the more famous names but he's not the 'top of the scene' because there is no top of the scene. House is far too diverse for that. Roger Sanchez, David Guetta, Carl Cox, John Digweed, Sasha, Sharam, Deadmau5, DJ Pierre, Satoshi Tomiie, Armand Van Helden, Green Velvet - All of these are HUGE names yet they are all doing completely different things. Because House is simply that big.
Same with Trance, on the one hand you have Above and Beyond doing their more progressive slow, minimal stuff (Mainly because of their Anjunadeep project) then on the other you have Stoneface and Terminal throwing out some really pumping, driving tracks. Not everyone is trying to sound like Tiesto or Armin.
And Drum n Bass - a lesser example but both Spor and Subfocus are HUGE yet come from entirely different ends of the drum n bass spectrum.
It sounds to me like you really don't listen to much House/Trance at all if you think David Guetta (or anyone) is 'on top of the scene'. That's a very blinkered think to say and you really need to get properly involved in a genre before you start spouting off about it.
And don't be ridiculous, the average raver doesn't have a clue about DJing, they just like the music. You're looking at music as a whole from a very one-sided perspective.
No, apparently it's you who doesn't follow the House scene - I've never been more into something than into House, and I don't think you're more into it than me tbh! My parents had these (now Oldskool) Classic House compilations which I was listening to all the time, and that is now almost 10 years ago. I am now 18. It's the only genre I've never really given up! I go to Clubbings 2-3 times a week to meet some of the biggest names, my friends are signed to Labels such as Zooland Music and I myself am starting my own label in September - with my tracks which have already been played internationally released on it. Half of my friends either do their own clubbings or their parents own Nightclubs and I really always get to know the 'Top Guns'. Actually half of my opinion comes from them and I think with their almost 40-years they will have enough experience to judge things correctly. So PLEASE. Don't talk about things you obviously don't know...
Back to David Guetta: He IS considered as the most popular 'House' DJ and he is aswell the most famous, most successfull and most expensive one. David Guetta doesn't play in Clubs anymore, if he's booked he gets his own mega-stage built together and his booking price is around 120,000 + 50% of all incomes. Roger Sanchez doesn't even get 5000. Steve Angello gets 10,000 per hour, Carl Cox 80,000. Carl Cox is for me a billion times better than Guetta (you can't even compare, I mean Guetta doesn't even produce, it's Joachim Garraud who has done all of his tracks), but he's still cheaper, which means he gets more bookings and that's the reason why he's one of the guys with the highest flight-mileage on earth. Nothing to do with all of this now but just thought I'd mention as I found it kind of interesting.
Now obviously you know who Carl Cox and Roger Sanchez are, but from the people that go to House clubbings, only 1 of 10 will know who these 2 are - on the other hand, pretty much EVERYONE will know who David Guetta is, even people who absolutely don't listen to this.
Anyway - Most big producers have lost their style: Just compare Chuckie, Tocadisco, Afrojack, Moguai and Pete Tong. They all have this ti-titi-ti-ti-titi sound now, which sickens me. And Drum & Bass? Sure, you are comparing Techstep to Liquid. That's like comparing Gabber to Breakbeat Hardcore, two completely different things. Now how many produce one Jump Up track after another which all sound exactly the same? Or Dubstep? Drum & Bass producers were originally doing Dubstep just for their own, because they couldn't stand the Drum & Bass sound anymore and they needed something different, just to change a bit. Now see what it has become, pure mainstream. Every track sounds the same and there is exactly zero potential behind that. But that was never ment to be like that! And the same thing happened to Minimal. And this is where I agree with cruelcore, they don't have the potential!! But they're all still trying!!
Now in the past months some top House producers have chased the Oldskool sound back and you can hear some tracks have recently gained Hardcore elements again. It's a good beginning! But still very very far away...
So please... don't teach me about the House scene, I don't think anyone can really beat me here ;) You may know more about Hardcore - and I admit there's a lot of stuff I don't know about Hardcore and it's scene - But the House Scene is my place!
Well I'd like to end this now because it absolutely doesn't lead anywhere. Obviously we see things differently. Each one his one I'd say... and if you want to continue to see things the way you did until now, and if it makes you happy, then go on, but I will not change my opinion on the Deadmau5 thing!
Cheers & End.
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Edited by - Revs on 2011/02/10 17:43:13 |
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