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Triquatra
Moderator
United Kingdom
12,635 posts Joined: Nov, 2003
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Posted - 2011/11/06 : 22:02:45
back on subject though, I've heard alot about the protest, and have been following it
but one thing they never report on is WHY they chose st pauls' cathedral to occupy
surely a bank would be more appropraite?
I see they tried the stock exchange first ...but who's idea was "well, the next best thing...a church!"
its clear more needs to be done to clamp down on greed (at all levels, especially the top though) but if all your protest is managing to do is make people worried about how church occupants will get to rememberance sunday - then clearly the protest isnt working
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TheOneNOnly
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United States
1,937 posts Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2011/11/06 : 22:46:12
This is a copy post from another forum, to help people understand what is it about:
quote: 1. The occupy movement was not created by anonymous. It was created by a many people with different ideas and interests working together on one thing they oppose: Corruption, vote buying, corpotocracy. The specific idea came from a small group of people who had used the occupy method at an earlier protest at a company earlier in the year. None of them were anonymous but these people cannot take credit for the movement even though it may have initially been their idea. Still I think we are all grateful for the support of many who consider themselves part of Anonymous. Remember: You are anonymous if you want to be.
2. The occupy movement is composed of people of every type, I've seen tea parties, communists, anarchists, republicans, Libertarians, Ron Paul followers, democrats, green parties, lunatics, drug addicts, straight edgers, buessness people, black people, white people, Asians, Hispanic people, Latinos, Gay people, Straight people, Bi people, males, females, heterosexuals, vegans, omnivores, Old people, Young people, people in their 40s, people in their 50s, people in their 30s, people over the age of 60 people in their 20s. Teenagers, ect. The media is trying very hard, and with some success, at stereotyping the movement. Don't listen to the media. Most people are not able to be there every day because most of us work and are busy so the demographics do change day to day.
3. There is no leader or leadership. Everyone has equal say in everything. Don't take my word for it. Head down to the General Assembly and participate. The movement is based on direct democracy voting process that includes blocking to protect minorities. Everyone present can vote. Everyone and anyone can form a "working group". Everyone and anyone can use the "peoples microphone" and speak.
4. Given #3, if you don't see your view represented it's because YOU are not participating. You have just as much ability to influence the occupy movement as anyone else. Instead of saying you don't agree with the occupy movement, go there and suggest the changes be made that you want made.
5. Some question why the movement is on wall street and business districts instead of just talking with politicians. The reason is simple, we've all tried that! We've been trying to talk with polititions for years and we have found that the real seat of power is not DC. It's wall street.
We have seen time and time again that a single corporate lobbying group has more power then hundreds of thousands of individual citizens. There are countless documented examples of the government caving to an industry group after hundreds of thousands or even millions of concerned citizens request the opposite of what the industry group wants and when polling shows most people are opposed to what the industry group wants.
6. HOWEVER, and given the above, there actually is an occupy DC which you can join that is closer to the puppets (politicians) if you wish to speak with them instead of their masters.
7. The movement has nothing to do with democrats or Obama. Most people in the movement are against Obama and don't like what he has done to the country. However you will also find supporters of Obama in the crowd just as you would expect in ANY gathering of individuals.
8. The movement is NOT antisemitic. Many occupations have passed resolutions (often via unanimous vote) against oppressive behavior including racism, sexism, homophobia, and antisemitism. If someone is demonstrating antisemetic behavior or language they may be held accountable by an accountability group.
However, note that there is nothing we can do to physically force racists out of a public space although we can always try
9. The employment rate of people at occupy events is higher then the general population. Yes you read that right, more people at occupy are employed and paying taxes then the general population.
10. The occupy movement is NOT looking for a handout. They are looking at an end to what would rightfully be called corruption.
11. The occupy movement is not ANTI RICH PEOPLE, although there are those in the movement who are, remember the movement allows all to speak even people who do not share the view of the majority. Many hope that the 1% join the 99% to form 100%.
12. The movement IS against the unjust political power that the rich hold. The 1% have all the power. It's political power that is the problem, not wealth in general. Yes many want a tax on the rich, in the 1950s our highest tax rate was in the 90% range.
13. The occupy movement is NOT marxist. It has no class analysis, 99% is not a code word for proletarians despite what the revolutionary communist party hopes they can spin it to mean. Instead it's talking about how most of the power is in the hands of the few.
14. There are all sorts of groups that want to hyjack the occupy movement. They will fail because it's a true popular movement lead directly by the people who participate in it. Everyone is of equal power.
Sometimes someone will try to lead and such people are quickly denounced. There have been times when someone tried to unfairly manipulate the voting process. It tends to not work out well for them and people vote the way they wanted to anyway.
15. If you don't like the location that the protest is at: Change it! Yes the occupations can change their location. It simply requires a vote to do so and since anyone can bring up an issue to vote you could go down to occupy tomorrow and ask to get the location changed to anywhere you want. Of course, that just means it will be voted on. Not that people will vote in your favor.
Occupy wall street is not intending to speak for you it's intending to let you speak for yourself!
It's a movement where you have just as much power as anyone else should you choose to participate. It's a movement where you have just as much say in what demands are made as everyone else, no backroom deals with lobbyists or revolving doors between cozy government and corporate jobs.
16. Some people think the protestors are paid to be there. For most that's false.
For some, that's absolutely the case. There are confirmed undercover police officers and private security firms and other such individuals acting as informants and sometimes provocateurs. This has been admitted and verified. It's also the case that some organizations wish to harm the democratic process and may pay people to do so. Luckily fully democratic processes such as the one used at occupy are very strong against attempts to unfairly manipulate them.
Unlike the current political situation you can't just bribe a few select officers, you literally need to get the majority on your side and sometimes a super majority if you're doing something crazy.
17. Please remember that when you let just anyone speak it means some crazy people will do so and some views you never heard before will be expressed. This is not a bad thing and does not mean that occupy endorses these views. It means that occupy allows all viewpoints to be expressed and does not suppress anyones right to speech.
18. The occupy movement is currently working on a list of demands. Each occupy in each city has their own list they are working on. If you care at all about the way the country is headed you should be there helping influence what the demands are. With enough participatin the occupy movment may actually have the power to change policy to make our government more open, honest, and less corrupt.
I hope this helps anyone who is honestly interested and perhaps confused. I may reply to legitimate questions and concerns but if you just want to troll me or lob personal attacks against me you're out of luck.
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Triquatra
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Posted - 2011/11/07 : 07:51:02
I know what they were (originally) about - my question was why a chruch?..
occupy st pauls has aparently lost its way, hense why i said (originally)
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Samination
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Sweden
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Posted - 2011/11/07 : 08:36:19
they should've occupied Hixxy's house. The RAver baby mp3s are way overdue
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latininxtc
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United States
7,307 posts Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2011/11/07 : 08:47:19
quote: Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
I know what they were (originally) about - my question was why a chruch?..
occupy st pauls has aparently lost its way, hense why i said (originally)
who knows. this occupy thing makes more sense in the US, and as 1&only's post points out those are the US reasons for the Occupy movement.
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Triquatra
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2011/11/07 : 09:33:33
I think there is probably good cause for occupy movements in most "developed" countries
trouble is this St Pauls one isnt drawing any attention to their cause, and instead drawing all the attention to the church
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_Jay_
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2011/11/07 : 09:54:00
quote: Originally posted by Samination:
they should've occupied Hixxy's house. The RAver baby mp3s are way overdue
7th December. First wave will hit trackitdown.net. It's actually happening.
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Samination
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Posted - 2011/11/07 : 10:52:21
quote: Originally posted by _Jay_:
quote: Originally posted by Samination:
they should've occupied Hixxy's house. The RAver baby mp3s are way overdue
7th December. First wave will hit trackitdown.net. It's actually happening.
7th December isn't Summer 2005. Summer 2005 isn't Spring 2011. Spring 2011 isn't the end of October 2011. And October 2011 is definitly not 7th December.
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_Jay_
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Posted - 2011/11/07 : 11:00:15
LOL. We'll see.
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djDMS
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United Kingdom
10,304 posts Joined: Feb, 2003
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Posted - 2011/11/07 : 11:57:27
7th December 2085
By then we'll be able to have the music directly downloaded to our brain, cuts out the risk of piracy.
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,163 posts Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2011/11/07 : 14:50:59
quote: Originally posted by djDMS:
7th December 2085
By then we'll be able to have the music directly downloaded to our brain, cuts out the risk of piracy.
by that time we can use Semen as memory fluid. So unless you recieve my full load, you wont get the full song... :P
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Edited by - Samination on 2011/11/07 14:51:38 |
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