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Meathead
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
4,217 posts Joined: Sep, 2006
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Posted - 2009/06/11 : 17:32:29
quote: Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
quote: Originally posted by DJ Revs:
Filesharing has also it's good sides : It allows small DJ's who don't have much money to get tracks for mixing. If you don't have money, and can't buy any tracks, how do you proove your skills ?
im confused....how can they show their skills if they are downloading mp3s?
this suggests to me that they have a timecode based system or cd decks - and in that case, if they can afford that - they can afford to buy the tunes!
at what....£1.30 a tune? thats not asking much, at all.
Just what i was about to say. What a ****ing ridiculous comment to make (Revs not your Triquatra)
The majority of people who fileshare im sure are not DJs anyway, but consumers.
And this thread STILL isnt about filesharing. Its about up and coming producers, stay on topic or else!!!!
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"Music creates order out of chaos; for rhythm imposes unanimity upon the divergent, melody imposes continuity upon the disjointed, and harmony imposes compatibility upon the incongruous." -Sir Yehudi Menuhin
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choonland
Advanced Member
Colombia
1,100 posts Joined: Dec, 2007
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Posted - 2009/06/11 : 20:12:49
as I see it, the original statement is only saying:
"BUY THESE ALBUMS:
Hardcore Underground, Hardcore Addiction, Hardcore Revolution, Pure Hardcore and Crush on Hardcore "
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https://soundcloud.com/naturatech
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djepi
Junior Member
United Kingdom
115 posts Joined: Nov, 2004
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Posted - 2009/06/11 : 20:21:56
Maybe there is a solution that might help a little...
Silver - you do a hell of a lot to promote hardcore already but hows about this:
I keep missing loads of good tunes I'd pay for if I knew they existed. How about you putting something perment on the front page of your top 10 tunes of the week (not a chart thing but a quality check of whats out - your opinion is trusted by me!). Something really simple and Flash based (no MP3 or youtube links please - I just can't be bothered).
Like the kind of top 10 tracks on beatport - simple, no messing, no downloads, just streams.
This is a massive site with major potential to do even more for the scene.
Its just too much effort the way things are currently setup to find out whats new/good. Again I can't stress it enough ...something simple!
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Edited by - djepi on 2009/06/11 20:45:46 |
Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,170 posts Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2009/06/11 : 20:49:46
quote: Originally posted by djepi:
Maybe there is a solution that might help a little...
Silver - you do a hell of a lot to promote hardcore already but hows about this:
I keep missing loads of good tunes I'd pay for if I knew they existed. How about you putting something perment on the front page of your top 10 tunes of the week (not a chart thing but a quality check of whats out - your opinion is trusted by me!). Something really simple and Flash based (no MP3 or youtube links please - I just can't be bothered).
Like the kind of top 10 tracks on beatport - simple, no messing, no downloads, just streams.
This is a massive site with major potential to do even more for the scene.
Its just too much effort the way things are currently setup to find out whats new/good. Again I can't stress it enough ...something simple!
He's trying to keep the frontpage updated with Vinyl releases. The bad thing about that is that he only just updates it with releases native to imorecords/hhc.com/hbs store. I wish he'd also announce the monthly updates from Shanty @ Electronica Exposed, even if his store doesn't sell them. This would propably help more of the newcomers Shanty has on his labels.
Also, what happened to Leto's monthly/bi-weekly digital updates? I know that there's been little hardcore released digitally lately, but there's still releases, even if its from "underdog" labels like those on imorecord's imodownload.
Time to get on topic!!!
If I where to support producers, I would still want to support those I like, by buying singles. This way the artists I want to pay for will get their money. I wont be able to do so on Combilations, as my money is shared between artists listed on those albums. If there's music I don't like, why should I support that artist's track? I can't say I'm out of money, but economicly, why should I get an product I don't like? It would be like buying dark chocolate when I know I don't like dark chocolate
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/ ---------------------------------------------
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Edited by - Samination on 2009/06/11 20:56:22 |
Future_Shock
Advanced Member
Australia
2,483 posts Joined: Apr, 2007
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Posted - 2009/06/11 : 21:55:34
quote: Originally posted by Meathead:
I must have misread the intial post, becuase i didnt see anywhere any mention of whos to blame for the downfall of the music industry.
Samination said he blamed people who only buy tapepacks/cd packs. I said i blamed filesharing.
It's a fair point, and i find it kind of moronic that you can't see it, because normally you do pick up on things pretty quickly.
Record labels are above everything a business. They need to get money from somewhere to survive. If they don't bring much money in (or none at all) what label is going to take a chance on a new artist? They don't want to be out of pocket - why don't they just continue releasing stuff they KNOW is going to sell - considering as that's what their profession is, and that's how they're getting food on the table?
I fail to see how lack of money in the music industry DOESN'T affect new artists getting signed.
quote: Originally posted by Samination:
Andy: do you really think filesharing THE ONE THING that's hurting hardcore?
I wont deny it's a one of the things in the equation of losses, but it's still not the only one.
is filesharing the reason the bigger labels are picky about the tracks that are going to appear on the CDs? not likely, it will still be pirated.
greed, no money, no real options to buy the music other than importing expensive vinyls, selling labels dont want to sell singles... the list of reason why hardcore's bust is long, but it all roots into, what kind of people are listening to hardcore?
meathed: i was one who blamed people :P
I agree, it's not the only one either, but it is a large reason. There's 100 other reasons, but only a few big ones - that, to me, is the biggest one.
quote: Originally posted by Meathead:
quote: Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
i didnt actually see any questions :P i saw a statement
Exactly. And a statement totally unrelated to filesharing yet that somehow is where this debate eded up. Strange.
What i got from this statement: it's becoming ever more difficult for up and coming producers to get their tracks on compilations/labels.
The conclusion everyone else seemingly arrived at: Oh Noez!!! Filesharing is killing teh scenez!11!!1ONE!!!
ive already explained how filesharing affects producers. I find it almost comical that you don't think it affects the scene at all... especially considering as people who USED to produce full time are taking on other jobs to cover their expenses. That means less music.
Are you getting the concept yet?
quote: Originally posted by Meathead:
Jest?
There was no mention of filesharing though? And i doubt very much that up and coming producers not "making it" in hardcore or making it on compilations is at all connected to filesharing. So i really dont see how you came to that conclusion. Did you even read the original post?
I mentioned filesharing because samination said who he blamed for it being hard for up n comers to break through. I listed what i thought was a big reason to blame.
It's natural flow of conversation. Because i had a reply about filesharing - which was VALID, as i've explain twice now, does not mean i'm at fault for other people commenting on it.
I can say what i want - especially as it was a valid argument - and people can reply. That's their prerogative. Do you KNOW how forums work? Surely you've seen how quickly forums go off topic? Why are you being so anal about THIS one?
quote: Originally posted by Meathead:
quote: Originally posted by Samination:
quote: Originally posted by Meathead:
Jest?
There was no mention of filesharing though? And i doubt very much that up and coming producers not "making it" in hardcore or making it on compilations is at all connected to filesharing. So i really dont see how you came to that conclusion. Did you even read the original post?
I have read it, but I wasnt the one who started the filesharing talk. Did you even my original reply? I just expressed that the labels should have consentrated on consumers (singles) instead of djs (vinyls)
Yes i did and fair point it was actually Influx who started that shite, although i didnt say you were the first to mention filesharing :p . You may not have started the filesharing debate but you did blame a completely unrelated entity also.
I am seriously stupefied that you think filesharing doesn't affect up and comers.
stupefied. I'm lost for words.
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Triquatra
Moderator
United Kingdom
12,635 posts Joined: Nov, 2003
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Posted - 2009/06/11 : 22:21:40
i think what meathead is more or less trying to get at, (and i agree with him) is that this is turning too much into a "should filesharing be legal, what do we think we should be allowed to file share" *yawn* topic
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http://www.hardcoreunderground.co.uk/ - http://CLSM.net -
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Meathead
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
4,217 posts Joined: Sep, 2006
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Posted - 2009/06/11 : 22:24:39
You dont seem very lost for words tbh.
Im not even bothering toi read your essay after reading the first few lines pal. Im aware that filesharing is a huge problem for hardcore and the music scene in general, but this thread was nothing at all to do with filesharing until you brought it up.
It was, how i read it, about how up and coming producers are finding it increasingly difficult to get their tracks noticed and onto big compilations and labels. Is this the work of nasty p2p users? no. is it the work of tapepacks/cd packs from events? no becuase these producers/DJs arent at these event s to have there tracks recorded and sold on illegally for a start.
The way i read the statement was that big labels and compilations dont want up and comers material. They want established artists. So what are these up and comers to do? Go to labels and compilations that do. How is that a result of filesharing? Big labels and compilations dont want tracks belonging to small time artists out there in the public so they can be fileshared, instead they want Hixxy and Styles' stuff to be fileshared?
I do not see at all why you brought filesharing up, i dont see why samination brought cd packs up and yes youre right i do usually pick up on things quite quickly, but there is no logic whatsoever in what you two are saying. You are taking th initial post and coming up with your own interpritations and causes to go with it and are firing blame off accordingly.
EDIT (i was bored and read the esaay after all)
Please dont patronise me on how forums work mate.
Basically Triquatra is kind of right. I dont see what this topic (initially) had to do with filesharing so why people have turned it into that is my concern. Im not being anal i honestly couldnt care less when a topic goes off from talking about someones love life to then talking about one's love of tomato ketchup on mushy peas and which brands are best for the respective products. It makes no difference to me. How people arrived at that discussion does. If a topic has nothing to do with filesharing and somehow gets onto that topic rather unjustly id like to talk about why. If people have arrived at a conclusion and i see no logical reason how they could do so ill say something about it.
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"Music creates order out of chaos; for rhythm imposes unanimity upon the divergent, melody imposes continuity upon the disjointed, and harmony imposes compatibility upon the incongruous." -Sir Yehudi Menuhin
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Edited by - Meathead on 2009/06/11 22:31:55 |
Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,170 posts Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2009/06/11 : 22:28:40
quote: Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
i think what meathead is more or less trying to get at, (and i agree with him) is that this is turning too much into a "should filesharing be legal, what do we think we should be allowed to file share" *yawn* topic
not quite, it was just mentioned, but it's propably the reason why i didnt want to mention it anymore.
Andy_Influx, Isn't once enough? I'd understand it if you actually did said it in different posts, and he kept saying that, but all in the same go?
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/ ---------------------------------------------
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,170 posts Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2009/06/11 : 22:35:08
quote: Originally posted by Meathead:
You dont seem very lost for words tbh.
Im not even bothering toi read your essay after reading the first few lines pal. Im aware that filesharing is a huge problem for hardcore and the music scene in general, but this thread was nothing at all to do with filesharing until you brought it up.
It was, how i read it, about how up and coming producers are finding it increasingly difficult to get their tracks noticed and onto big compilations and labels. Is this the work of nasty p2p users? no. is it the work of tapepacks/cd packs from events? no becuase these producers/DJs arent at these event s to have there tracks recorded and sold on illegally for a start.
The way i read the statement was that big labels and compilations dont want up and comers material. They want established artists. So what are these up and comers to do? Go to labels and compilations that do. How is that a result of filesharing? Big labels and compilations dont want tracks belonging to small time artists out there in the public so they can be fileshared, instead they want Hixxy and Styles' stuff to be fileshared?
I do not see at all why you brought filesharing up, i dont see why samination brought cd packs up and yes youre right i do usually pick up on things quite quickly, but there is no logic whatsoever in what you two are saying. You are taking th initial post and coming up with your own interpritations and causes to go with it and are firing blame off accordingly.
EDIT (i was bored and read the esaay after all)
Please dont patronise me on how forums work mate.
Basically Triquatra is kind of right. I dont see what this topic (initially) had to do with filesharing so why people have turned it into that is my concern. Im not being anal i honestly couldnt care less when a topic goes off from talking about someones love life to then talking about one's love of tomato ketchup on mushy peas and which brands are best for the respective products. It makes no difference to me. How people arrived at that discussion does. If a topic has nothing to do with filesharing and somehow gets onto that topic rather unjustly id like to talk about why. If people have arrived at a conclusion and i see no logical reason how they could do so ill say something about it.
Maybe me and influx did start flaming to quick, but based on the last line in the original post, the original poster wanted us to discuss how to get up n comming noticed, and solving the problems why they are not noticed.
I don't know the details on how Slipmatt, Hixxy, Demo and co did back in the earlier days, but it does sound like what djkenmasters said, they showed themselfs instead of just hoping to be showned or asked to be showned
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/ ---------------------------------------------
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Meathead
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
4,217 posts Joined: Sep, 2006
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Posted - 2009/06/11 : 22:35:48
quote: Originally posted by Samination:
quote: Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
i think what meathead is more or less trying to get at, (and i agree with him) is that this is turning too much into a "should filesharing be legal, what do we think we should be allowed to file share" *yawn* topic
not quite, it was just mentioned, but it's propably the reason why i didnt want to mention it anymore.
Andy_Influx, Isn't once enough? I'd understand it if you actually did said it in different posts, and he kept saying that, but all in the same go?
The man has a point. Influx: Why do you set out your post so that by the time you get to your second point youre assuming ive read the first, before youve actually posted it? Makes it seem very patronising, like im still not getting the message and youre having to drive it home repeatedly like your talking to a child with down-syndrome who stumbled upon a computer and smashed his fist on the keyboard, which im not really. That aswell as the explaining in lamest terms how a forum works makes you come accross as a bit of a belittling nob in some of your posts. Ive seen that you are actually an ok bloke, you wished me a happy birthday a few eeks back which i was greatful for, so i know youre not in fact a nob. But you dont come accoss too well when you set your posts out like that.
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"Music creates order out of chaos; for rhythm imposes unanimity upon the divergent, melody imposes continuity upon the disjointed, and harmony imposes compatibility upon the incongruous." -Sir Yehudi Menuhin
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Edited by - Meathead on 2009/06/11 22:38:26 |
acidfluxxbass
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
5,000 posts Joined: Apr, 2008
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Posted - 2009/06/11 : 23:12:06
quote: Originally posted by Meathead:
quote: Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
quote: Originally posted by DJ Revs:
Filesharing has also it's good sides : It allows small DJ's who don't have much money to get tracks for mixing. If you don't have money, and can't buy any tracks, how do you proove your skills ?
im confused....how can they show their skills if they are downloading mp3s?
this suggests to me that they have a timecode based system or cd decks - and in that case, if they can afford that - they can afford to buy the tunes!
at what....£1.30 a tune? thats not asking much, at all.
Just what i was about to say. What a ****ing ridiculous comment to make (Revs not your Triquatra)
The majority of people who fileshare im sure are not DJs anyway, but consumers.
And this thread STILL isnt about filesharing. Its about up and coming producers, stay on topic or else!!!!
yeah revs thats a pretty damn stupid thing to say, especially as you do fileshare full songs..
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Future_Shock
Advanced Member
Australia
2,483 posts Joined: Apr, 2007
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Posted - 2009/06/11 : 23:52:42
quote: Originally posted by Meathead:
quote: Originally posted by Samination:
quote: Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
i think what meathead is more or less trying to get at, (and i agree with him) is that this is turning too much into a "should filesharing be legal, what do we think we should be allowed to file share" *yawn* topic
not quite, it was just mentioned, but it's propably the reason why i didnt want to mention it anymore.
Andy_Influx, Isn't once enough? I'd understand it if you actually did said it in different posts, and he kept saying that, but all in the same go?
The man has a point. Influx: Why do you set out your post so that by the time you get to your second point youre assuming ive read the first, before youve actually posted it? Makes it seem very patronising, like im still not getting the message and youre having to drive it home repeatedly like your talking to a child with down-syndrome who stumbled upon a computer and smashed his fist on the keyboard, which im not really. That aswell as the explaining in lamest terms how a forum works makes you come accross as a bit of a belittling nob in some of your posts. Ive seen that you are actually an ok bloke, you wished me a happy birthday a few eeks back which i was greatful for, so i know youre not in fact a nob. But you dont come accoss too well when you set your posts out like that.
i get aggressive when people tell me points are invalid. Which you did.
Then when i actually took the time to explain it, you told me you didn't even read it.
I've explained my view on how filesharing really DOES in fact, affect up and comers. Especially considering as i've had some of my tracks fileshared and it almost cost me a vinyl signing. So don't tell me it has nothing to do with it, when you really don't know the perspective of an up and comer, yeah?
I don't have anything against you at all, i actually think you're a solid bloke, but you instantly dismissing my point without understanding it makes YOU a knob, not me.
I do apologize for being condescending though.
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Edited by - Future_Shock on 2009/06/11 23:53:42 |
Gammer
New Member
United Kingdom
74 posts Joined: Oct, 2004
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Posted - 2009/06/11 : 23:57:01
I blame the economy
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MAtRiCks
Advanced Member
Canada
1,059 posts Joined: Sep, 2006
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Posted - 2009/06/12 : 04:18:20
It's all Gammer's fault
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Yoko
Average Member
United States
173 posts Joined: Dec, 2005
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Posted - 2009/06/12 : 05:43:59
My 2 cents referring to the original topic:
The area I live in is dominated by the rap/rock/pop cut that has consumed America. The closest I can get to any form of electronica is through stores that sell CD compilations and a few albums released by artists. Not cheap but not expensive, about the same price for other genre music. Its only that its all Club/Dance stuff, no real hardcore/hardstyle/gabber/ect . . . Its the shit they play in clubs, mostly dance anthems from Tiesto/Darude/PVD/Buuren/Corsten/ect . . . Don't get me wrong, I fking love Corsten production and Buuren on the ASOT . . . but down here in the lower part of the states, its "if its not on the radio, its stupid" mentality. I honestly believe I am one of 12 people in the Columbia area that knows what Hardcore is. And probably 1 out of 100 in the state with 4 million people. Do you see my big problem?
NOTE: There are record shops around the state but all they carry is what DJs down here use, the rap/rock/pop shit. Even the special orders don't have any hardcore/hardstyle on them. But go over the Texas Houston/Dallas area or up to the Northeast in Mass/NYC/Canada and both are full of hardcore DJs / Events. But do I really want to drive 1000+ miles for an event? NO.
Another 2 cents: I won 4 CDs from the competitons hosted by HappyHardcore.com, received only 2 due to errors but that was 2-3 years ago so meh . . . anyways, thats the only hardcore I have - Hardcore Nation 3 and a Helter Skelter Hardcore mix. Since the stores around here don't carry anything remotely that you could call Hardcore, I had to look online for it. Amazon.com has the CD compliations that I want, such as some SB stuff where he gives the DJ Friendly tracks on CD 2 and other CDs back in the early 2000's when Hardcore was GOOD. Hardcore today is too much ClubExtreme style stuff. Too much vocals, no true instrumental tracks, I know there are some, but not like there used to be. Its all singing and shit now.
Anyways, looking online for CD Compilations and Albums they are about $40-50 USD just to order because they are "IMPORT" status . . . when Amazon UK carries them for a lower price but I have to use Amazon US >__> Anyways, have not really gotten into digital downloads yet, mainly because I don't know what songs are what. Like right now I'm listening to some old mixes that Silver sent me. The tracks on here are amazing and I would love to DJ with them. But I don't have a clue as to what the IDs are and how to get them.
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Edited by - Yoko on 2009/06/12 05:50:31 |
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