Icewind Junior Member
Canada
127 posts Joined: Jun, 2013
Posted - 2024/04/17 : 13:17:05
I think AI made music is cool as a novelty, but knowing that a machine produced a song through randomization cheapens it for me. I'd prefer to hear music made from machines that are controlled by humans. Only a human can convey real emotion through music...
Posted - 2024/04/20 : 02:20:44
Just made the 90s Happy Hardcore mix tape track, which I've updated in my original post.
My God I'm so happy with it.
Finally managed to create some absolute authentic 90s happy hardcore and now there's nothing stopping me making more. They just need to add a snipping feature (which is apparently planned, we'll see) and I'm ready to make an endless amount of full tracks if I want to.
The more I listen to it, the more I love it. I thought the first track was a bit corny when I made it but now can't get enough of it, gonna have to try and extend it into a full track I guess.
Just hearing this sound after so long. It's like bringing a 2 decade genre back from the dead. It was a rather special moment when it dawned on me fully what I was actually hearing. I actual shed a tear. There's been things close to 90s Happy Hardcore, but they've always been close but no cigar. This is the authentic real deal imo.
Samination Advanced Member
Sweden
13,166 posts Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
Posted - 2024/04/20 : 08:20:58
I have no issues with AI, as long as you don't try to sell it, then I'd tell you to f*ck off like everyone else.
TBH, no one should feel like they've accomplished anything just because they wrote a row of sentences to make it work.
The only time I'll fully accept it is when an artist (as in painting or drawings) only uses his or her own art to [re]create things they hate having to redo each time, or things they know they have a hard time drawing.
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber http://samination.se/ ---------------------------------------------
Posted - 2024/04/20 : 09:35:03
I don't feel like I've achieved much of anything, but I feel like we have, as a society.
The people that developed this technology have the achievement. And it's been many decades in development, since the 80s, with countless contributions to the AI field and computer industry in order to get here. The bulk of the achievement for every song that's made, is due to the platform they've created.
I don't care who 'makes' the music, I care about listening to the music. And this is human music. Despite what people may call it, and an AI generating it, that AI learnt its patterns and sounds entirely from us and the music industry as a whole, going all the way back to classical composers 100s of years ago. There's nothing non-human about it. But instead of individuals making this music, it's like we're doing it as a collective.
DJ_FunDaBounce Advanced Member
Colombia
2,011 posts Joined: Nov, 2001
Posted - 2024/04/20 : 16:43:41
Been looking a bit more into this topic. It seems that Udio is being trained with with copyrighted music. That is, using material that has been previously put out and without any restriction. As impressive as the results may be, this fact alone shows how low the standards of our society have actually become. Feed the Ai with enough "Justin Bieber" and sure enough it will spit out something due to all the training. That's the way these prompt based models work.
As much as some may want you to believe, that is NOT a step forward in the right direction nor is it an achievement for musicians, much less society as a whole.
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"Fun with a capital F-D-B!"
Samination Advanced Member
Sweden
13,166 posts Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
Posted - 2024/04/20 : 17:54:57
quote:Originally posted by DJ_FunDaBounce:
Been looking a bit more into this topic. It seems that Udio is being trained with with copyrighted music. That is, using material that has been previously put out and without any restriction. As impressive as the results may be, this fact alone shows how low the standards of our society have actually become. Feed the Ai with enough "Justin Bieber" and sure enough it will spit out something due to all the training. That's the way these prompt based models work.
As much as some may want you to believe, that is NOT a step forward in the right direction nor is it an achievement for musicians, much less society as a whole.
Our standards fell apart with the help of VHS and the loudness war ;)
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber http://samination.se/ ---------------------------------------------
quote:Originally posted by DJ_FunDaBounce:
Been looking a bit more into this topic. It seems that Udio is being trained with with copyrighted music. That is, using material that has been previously put out and without any restriction. As impressive as the results may be, this fact alone shows how low the standards of our society have actually become. Feed the Ai with enough "Justin Bieber" and sure enough it will spit out something due to all the training. That's the way these prompt based models work.
As much as some may want you to believe, that is NOT a step forward in the right direction nor is it an achievement for musicians, much less society as a whole.
I, personally, don't much care about gatekeeping and selfishness. Whatever if it's copywrited. Music is for everyone and society as a whole. It shouldn't be restricted because people want to make money off it. Human artists can learn off work that's been published and they've heard, same for AI that should be able to. It's not actually producing melodies and lyrics that are copyrighted otherwise they'd be flagged just like if anybody
else does, and in the exact same way.
On another note I just made one of the tracks from the mix tape into a full version, updated original post. Are we really going down the argument that people, like me, being able to create a genre again (that is effectively dead) is a bad thing? I love this song and 90's HH and there are probably much better tracks to come yet. There's two sides to every story.
Icewind Junior Member
Canada
127 posts Joined: Jun, 2013
Posted - 2024/04/21 : 18:33:18
Sir, there is nothing wrong with bringing a genre back from the dead and playing with AI to write music. But there is no artistic value to it. If you want to produce music so bad, and contribute to this genre, do it through traditional means. Learn a daw, how synthesizers work, music theory...and write a track. AI made music is fake and lacks any real meaning at all...
quote:Originally posted by Icewind:
Sir, there is nothing wrong with bringing a genre back from the dead and playing with AI to write music. But there is no artistic value to it. If you want to produce music so bad, and contribute to this genre, do it through traditional means. Learn a daw, how synthesizers work, music theory...and write a track. AI made music is fake and lacks any real meaning at all...
How does it lack value if someone enjoys listening to it??
What if a generated song gives someone inspiration on how to make one? Or it brings in new fans to the genre who would have not heard it otherwise? Or it brings back nostalgia and gets people to give the genre another go?
You can still fully write the lyrics for the AI music (LLMs suck as f*** at writing their own right now). You can still prompt and manouvre the style, what direction the track takes, instruments used, syllables and holding of notes through lyric notation and writing. Typically the best way to actually create a decent piece is to get it to generate a instrumental and then play it on in your head to add vocals that actually work and you need to write yourself... this takes and necessitates an actual musical ear still.
Why didn't hardcore producers go out and play with a theremin to make their music? Rather than cheating and using a computer to generate synthetic sounds for them? Can say the same thing to that. It depends entirely on framing and perspective.
Posted - 2024/04/27 : 17:09:03
It's a question of degree, really. Humans are "trained" on copyrighted material. There can't be many people alive today who can honestly claim they've never heard anything copyrighted.
I was actually considering this topic given the dearth of recent freeform releases. Would be great to hear some new freeform.
DJ_FunDaBounce Advanced Member
Colombia
2,011 posts Joined: Nov, 2001
Posted - 2024/04/27 : 17:46:18
The training analogy is off in the sense that the AI is basically re-using the material it's been fed. Not simply "learning" but truly re-using and altering it in as per the suggested prompt.
Yes, the quality of the AI is very high in terms of replacing a vocal with specified lyrics. but there is as much creative expression in this as ordering a happy meal from McDonald's.
Standards need to be raised.
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"Fun with a capital F-D-B!"
Posted - 2024/04/27 : 21:11:11
Given a choice between "tunes made 10 years ago by a human that you've already heard in 94 different mixes" and "something in the style of freeform generated by a computer", I'm going to give our new AI overlords a chance.
Posted - 2024/06/16 : 15:14:41
I always told myself that one day I'll learn how to train one of those AI softwares on my own music and make sure to not include any copyrighted material, but then I find new music ideas and end up producing instead.
Google and Duckduckgo are kinda unreliable nowadays with all the scams that get pushed into the first pages of results. If it's going to take me weeks to figure out how to use an AI music generator with only my own material then I'd rather open up a DAW and create the music myself from scratch in just a few days or even hours.
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Dream of Omnimaga
Alert moderatorEdited by - DJ Omnimaga on 2024/06/16 15:15:09
DJ_FunDaBounce Advanced Member
Colombia
2,011 posts Joined: Nov, 2001
Posted - 2024/06/16 : 16:03:42
quote:Originally posted by DJ Omnimaga:
If it's going to take me weeks to figure out how to use an AI music generator with only my own material then I'd rather open up a DAW and create the music myself from scratch in just a few days or even hours.
I was also thinking that. Knowing how to get around a DAW isn't that hard and makes it a lot more flexible/tweakable. It also happens to be the fun part.
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"Fun with a capital F-D-B!"
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Posted - 2024/04/17 : 00:15:54
Posted - 2024/04/17 : 13:17:05
