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SEEKY
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 Posted - 2005/10/10 : 21:13:13
will the speed of the record be the same as if a Numark X-1 turntable was at 0 on the pitch control.
My mate is buying one Technics deck and one Numark TTx-1 deck and wants to know this for some reason
Cheers
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Underloop
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Posted - 2005/10/10 : 21:30:03
Providing the turntable is set up correctly (ie so the dots on the side where the strobe is appear to be stationary) on both then yes, it should be the same. Theres a little screw where you can fine tune the "default" pitch of the table
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Dain-Ja
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Posted - 2005/10/12 : 03:47:22
why wouldn't he get two technics decks???
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SickPigRecords
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Posted - 2005/10/12 : 13:14:42
there are no dots just some lines on the numark tt x1 dont know if they are relavent but there is only 1 set and the deck has 3 speed settings. but 45 shoud be 45 and 33 should be 33 and this should be the same with all turntables
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Edited by - SickPigRecords on 2005/10/12 13:21:49 |
Dain-Ja
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Posted - 2005/10/12 : 13:55:25
the 3 speed settings are the startup torque settings
see...look how dumb it is to have a digital pitch fader and no strobe
if ever the zero moves you'll never know
and digital pitch faders aren't as accurate
tell him to get two tech12s
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Triquatra
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Posted - 2005/10/12 : 19:19:09
oh..my.. god
"the 3 speed settings are the startup torque settings"
the startup torque?? - the speed at which it starts up at....no
i hope your not suggesting that they define the speed at which it starts up at are you? - they define the speed at which the deck runs - the two analogue dials at the left hand side are the adjustable start/stop times.
"see...look how dumb it is to have a digital pitch fader and no strobe
if ever the zero moves you'll never know"
it doesnt have a digital pitch fader - the only thing that is special about it is that it is modular - it has a digital readout yes but the fader is really no differnt to a Tech fader - oh wait, other than the fact you can switch it between 8%/10%/20% and 50%, oh, and the quartz lock which lets you lock it at exactly 0%,
and by the way - it does have a strobe
"and digital pitch faders aren't as accurate"
i think i answered that one above.
you clearly havent used them - else you would at the very least know that it has a strobe.
so how about you actually go out and try them? insted of being so close minded - at the very least learn a little about them you would at least have known they have a strobe and could have dropped that out of the equation..
for gods sake dont "tell him to get 2 techs" if someone was buying them - you try both and see which you like
---------
edit: just edited out the insults, this wasnt supposed to be really directed at you - just cant stand the whole "Technics man, yeah" loop people who havnt used ttx1's get into, kinda lame. theres nothing wrong with technics, theres nothing wrong with TTX1s
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Edited by - Triquatra on 2005/10/12 19:28:38 |
Underloop
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Posted - 2005/10/12 : 21:52:27
^^^^ the mans spot on, listen to him!
22/45/78 is the speed of the turntable at 0% in rpm. This stands for revolutions per minute. Torque is measured in Newton meters (or pound feet if your either very old or American). Providing the table is set up correctly all tables will be the same.
Even if the fader was digital, why does that make it less accurate than analogue? Am I not right in thinking that analogue technology is generally less accurate by its very nature than digital technology? Thats the whole reason why analogue synths sound so much warmer than digital replicas of the analogue synths, due to the in-accuracy and randomness of the components. (note: I am not for one minute either saying that digital is better than analogue, or even trying to start a digital v analogue argument, both have their benefits)
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Dain-Ja
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Posted - 2005/10/13 : 07:50:50
hehe I knew triquatra would post something
I've used the TTX-1s before...but only for about 30 mins and it was about a year ago
however, it was a side by side comparison to tech12s (I was also comparing to a stanton str8-150...but that's unrelated)
from the numark site:
"_ Powerful direct-drive motor with adjustable torque (patent pending)
_ Choose from three distinct motor torque settings to suit your style of spinning, 2.5, 3.7 and 4.7kgfcm "
you don't even know your own decks' features
how sad is that?
"the two analogue dials at the left hand side are the adjustable start/stop times."
yes, that's called startup torque you #@%@#$
lol
"it doesnt have a digital pitch fader - the only thing that is special about it is that it is modular - it has a digital readout yes but the fader is really no differnt to a Tech fader - oh wait, other than the fact you can switch it between 8%/10%/20% and 50%, oh, and the quartz lock which lets you lock it at exactly 0%,
and by the way - it does have a strobe
"and digital pitch faders aren't as accurate"
i think i answered that one above."
actually it DOES have a digital pitch fader
the readout is digital and guess what...the fader is too.
it has the same kind of crappy digital pitch fader as CD players have
they aren't as precise (analogue pitch faders are theoretically infinately precise....) - they only go to 0.05% or 0.1%
which means you have to correct the mix more than on tech12s as it won't hold the pitch as well - and no dj deck holds the pitch as well as tech12s anyways - that's also a fact
"Even if the fader was digital, why does that make it less accurate than analogue? Am I not right in thinking that analogue technology is generally less accurate by its very nature than digital technology? Thats the whole reason why analogue synths sound so much warmer than digital replicas of the analogue synths, due to the in-accuracy and randomness of the components. (note: I am not for one minute either saying that digital is better than analogue, or even trying to start a digital v analogue argument, both have their benefits)"
were talking about an electrical component that determines the current that will be sent to the motor here...
a digital pitch fader is an analog pitch fader with a unit that detects the current then converts it to a digital format and then sends it off to the rest of the turntable
so it's basically an analog fader which is less accurate
the pitch only goes to 0.1% precision on the ttx1's fader I believe so it is less accurate - just like cd players aren't as accurate when it comes to pitch
"you clearly havent used them - else you would at the very least know that it has a strobe.
so how about you actually go out and try them? insted of being so close minded - at the very least learn a little about them you would at least have known they have a strobe and could have dropped that out of the equation..
for gods sake dont "tell him to get 2 techs" if someone was buying them - you try both and see which you like"
I didn't remember it having a strobe but whatever
I'm not close-minded - if you're gonna be playing out at raves or clubs you're ALOT better off having the same setup at home
and guess what? NO clubs have TTX-1s
secondly, tech12s are ALOT more reliable
the MKI TTX-1s overheated and such
the tech12 is a time tested design - they can last forever as every part is replaceable
and DJs have been using them for 30 years
one of my tech12s is 10 years old and works like it's brand new
and it's not even about trying both
a newbie will NOT be able to tell if one deck is better than the other
he will go for looks and quirks (like the stupid pitch/bpm readout)
do you actually expect a newbie to be able to tell if a deck holds the pitch better
anyways just for the serviceability you're better off with tech12s
then the fact that every gig you'll ever play at will have tech12s just makes it an obligation
anyways there's no point debating
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Underloop
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Posted - 2005/10/13 : 10:14:41
Sorry Triquatra, I know your gonna be dying to reply to this, but I have a meeting in an hour and I can't be arsed waiting  heh
quote:
Originally posted by Dain-Ja:
from the numark site:
"_ Powerful direct-drive motor with adjustable torque (patent pending)
_ Choose from three distinct motor torque settings to suit your style of spinning, 2.5, 3.7 and 4.7kgfcm "
you don't even know your own decks' features
how sad is that?
"the two analogue dials at the left hand side are the adjustable start/stop times."
yes, that's called startup torque you #@%@#$
lol
OK, the analogue dial at the left MAY adjust the torque, but you said the speed settings (ie the 33, 45 and 78) control the torque - this is what was said was wrong in your post.
quote:
actually it DOES have a digital pitch fader
the readout is digital and guess what...the fader is too.
it has the same kind of crappy digital pitch fader as CD players have
they aren't as precise (analogue pitch faders are theoretically infinately precise....) - they only go to 0.05% or 0.1%
which means you have to correct the mix more than on tech12s as it won't hold the pitch as well - and no dj deck holds the pitch as well as tech12s anyways - that's also a fact
OK, I see what your saying, I was coming from a slightly different angle. If you add into the equation inaccuracies in the analogue mechanism (tolerances, heat expansion and the such) then the digital setting should be exactly (eg) 0.7%. I think its also worth pointing out that an accuracy of 0.1% on the pitch fader is pretty damn accurate anyway. at a bpm of 170bpm, 0.1% accuracy means you can adjust the bpm by 0.17bpm. Thats quite a small value really heh.
quote:
were talking about an electrical component that determines the current that will be sent to the motor here...
a digital pitch fader is an analog pitch fader with a unit that detects the current then converts it to a digital format and then sends it off to the rest of the turntable
so it's basically an analog fader which is less accurate
the pitch only goes to 0.1% precision on the ttx1's fader I believe so it is less accurate - just like cd players aren't as accurate when it comes to pitch
OK, this isn't me saying "your wrong" this is literally just a question, but is it a fact that the actual control of the fader is digital, and not just the readout? I'd have thought it would make more sense for the direct current to go to the motor, and a branch off go through a "digitiser" (for want of a better word) to read the output into the display (rounded off to the nearest 0.1%).
quote:
I didn't remember it having a strobe but whatever
Actually this I'm intrigued about too. Only used one briefly also, and hence didn't have to worry about setting it up or anything, BUT where is the strobe Triquatra? There has to be something so you can set up the damn thing heh, but I can't see anything that resembles a strobe on the above picture.
quote:
NO clubs have TTX-1s
You need to go to more clubs - alot of clubs these days when it comes to replacing their systems, or new clubs buying new are buying alternatives to 1210s, and the numarks are appearing in more and more clubs
quote:
I'm not close-minded
.....
anyways there's no point debating
'nuff said 
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Triquatra
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Posted - 2005/10/13 : 17:20:07
lol damnmit underloop :P
dain-ja said
"the 3 speed settings are the startup torque settings"
and as underloop pointed out the 3 speed settings DO NOT adjust the startup time
kinda defeats your "dont know your own equipment speel doesnt it...
read what people are writing!
maybe go back and read the post again before immidiently assuming that the guy with the ttx1s is trying to insult your technics manhood - your acting as if i dont like technics dain-ja.
i use both ttx1's and technics, and yes there are definatly more technics than ttx's in clubs - they've been at all the ones ive DJed in..
but when i came to make my decision of which decks to upgrade to i chose ttx1's over the technics.
ive googled your 0.1% figure and couldnt find anything apart from a few forums posts - all of which were about how much more precise the ttx actually is than a tech
"A TTX has a higher W&F but is more accurate than a Technics table as it monitors 800 points of rotation compared to a Technics 300. As i have both, i can say that the TTX is much more accurate when i place two of the same vinyl (normally i use of juggling) the Techs falls out of sync quicker."
however i did give numark a quick call - they say that the pitch adjust is digital - so fair play - bet you £10 that the ttx is still more precise though. i still wonder if they thought i was talking about the display though :S
now we can all play a game of spot the strobe :D
btw: you are clearly close minded, you've shown that all too well in your last few posts
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Edited by - Triquatra on 2005/10/13 17:47:19 |
Jax
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Posted - 2005/10/13 : 18:28:08
you win i cant see a strobe for shit lol
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SickPigRecords
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 Posted - 2005/10/14 : 00:16:51
Ladys please!!
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Dain-Ja
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Posted - 2005/10/14 : 22:09:35
Triquatra: sorry I sounded like an ass in my post
it was 3 am or something when I posted it and I had a rough day
anyhow I still maintain what I said
quote:
OK, the analogue dial at the left MAY adjust the torque, but you said the speed settings (ie the 33, 45 and 78) control the torque - this is what was said was wrong in your post.
sorry I guess i didn't make what I was referring to clear when I posted and it might've come out as referring to 33, 45 and 78 since you had just mentioned those
quote:
OK, I see what your saying, I was coming from a slightly different angle. If you add into the equation inaccuracies in the analogue mechanism (tolerances, heat expansion and the such) then the digital setting should be exactly (eg) 0.7%. I think its also worth pointing out that an accuracy of 0.1% on the pitch fader is pretty damn accurate anyway. at a bpm of 170bpm, 0.1% accuracy means you can adjust the bpm by 0.17bpm. Thats quite a small value really heh.
0.17bpm kinda big...
My cd players only have 0.1% accuracy and no matter what you do they will require correction due to it
for example if I take two tracks and beatmatch them
let's say I ahve one at +5
it'll drift enough that I have to correct it twice in a mix (mixes usually last about 1 min - 1 min 40 secs)
if I do the mix again with the pitch at +5.1
it will still drift but the opposite way...and I'll have to correct it once or twice just like when it's at +5
that's why I only like playing on cd players like the cdj-1000 ... it has 0.05% accuracy lol :)
quote:
"Actually this I'm intrigued about too. Only used one briefly also, and hence didn't have to worry about setting it up or anything, BUT where is the strobe Triquatra? There has to be something so you can set up the damn thing heh, but I can't see anything that resembles a strobe on the above picture.
yeah, as I suspected there is no strobe on the TTX-1...I dunno why Triquatra bitched at me for saying there wasn't since there clearly isn't any
...the only thing I see there is a popup light - which is definately not a strobe
quote:
you clearly havent used them - else you would at the very least know that it has a strobe.
tell me where
quote:
You need to go to more clubs - alot of clubs these days when it comes to replacing their systems, or new clubs buying new are buying alternatives to 1210s, and the numarks are appearing in more and more clubs
I go to raves and clubs on a regular basis
I spin at raves
I have seen nothing but tech12s
seeing as they have been the standard for the past 30 years I don't see why they would change that (the DJs would get pissed off - nobody likes playing out on gear they don't know)
in fact if you can find me a picture from a big rave where I'll see anything but tech12s show me...I really don't see where you might have seen this
yeah I've already told you I meant the startup torque knob
since it 3 speed settings I thought that's what we meant
move on.
quote:
however i did give numark a quick call - they say that the pitch adjust is digital - so fair play - bet you £10 that the ttx is still more precise though. i still wonder if they thought i was talking about the display though :S
told you :P
but from my experience it isn't more precise
and it says right there it has higher wow & flutter than the tech12s
so we can't tell from that which is more precise since the speed of the platter on tech12s doesn't need to be monitored as much as the ttx-1 since it has lower W&F in the first place
and this guy says it drifts faster on tech12s
I compared both and disagree
if I set the pitch on a tech12 it holds the whole way through the mix without needing to be corrected
that is not true for the ttx-1
anyways the fact that all the clubs and raves have tech12s should be enough to motivate anybody to get tech12s
when you add on the fact that the TTX-1 has a much higher likelyhood of failing long-term and cannot be repaired nearly as easily...
quote:
btw: you are clearly close minded, you've shown that all too well in your last few posts
well...if thinking someone should get the insdustry standard deck so they can adapt faster to clubs is close-minded
if getting the deck that is more reliable and has a proven track record as opposed to the deck which overheated in it's MK1 form (so who knows what else could go wrong with with them in the long run...)
on top of the fact that even if it does fail the technics will be cheaper to repair
(and an analysis of the electric components shows technics left tons of headroom in everything to ensure they last much longer
there is a somewhat easy mod which increases the technics' torque
however, this also reduces the motor's durability - which is why it's not done at the factory...technics are built to last - literally)
if all of that makes me close-minded
then I guess I am...
there's so many quotes in this post I don't know if it'll turn out
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Triquatra
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Posted - 2005/10/15 : 05:01:16
dude, your only real arguement is that "technics are in all the clubs, thats why a person needs them"
....i have the mk1's...they haven't overheated, ive had them since about 3 months after they were released
its not a pop up light (sorry), but it doubles as a speed strobe - if you want you can google it, its actually detachable.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ttx1+strobe
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Edited by - Triquatra on 2005/10/15 05:02:57 |
clarke101
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Posted - 2005/10/15 : 09:18:50
Im going in to join in pointing out mistakes you have made as it seems like fun
quote:
Originally posted by Dain-Ja:
0.17bpm kinda big...
My cd players only have 0.1% accuracy and no matter what you do they will require correction due to it
for example if I take two tracks and beatmatch them
let's say I ahve one at +5
it'll drift enough that I have to correct it twice in a mix (mixes usually last about 1 min - 1 min 40 secs)
if I do the mix again with the pitch at +5.1
it will still drift but the opposite way...and I'll have to correct it once or twice just like when it's at +5
that's why I only like playing on cd players like the cdj-1000 ... it has 0.05% accuracy lol :)
This statement has nothing to do with the decks ability to hold pitch, which you used the statement to defend the comment you had made. Its to do with the the accuracy of the pitch fader.
If a deck cant hold pitch it is to do with the stabillity of the motor not the accuracy of the pitch fader.
The accuracy of the pitch fader means that your mix may never have actually been 100% right in the first place.
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Dain-Ja
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Posted - 2005/10/16 : 22:56:43
quote:
dude, your only real arguement is that "technics are in all the clubs, thats why a person needs them"
....i have the mk1's...they haven't overheated, ive had them since about 3 months after they were released
its not a pop up light (sorry), but it doubles as a speed strobe - if you want you can google it, its actually detachable.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ttx1+strobe height=1 noshade id=quote>
well that's not exactly my argument
it's the fact that's it's industry standard, is known to be durable and has a proven track record
as for your decks not overheating...that's unrelated
the fact is that they're known to overheat in some cases
whcih proves numark doesn't have the quality control and build quality technics has
quote:
This statement has nothing to do with the decks ability to hold pitch, which you used the statement to defend the comment you had made. Its to do with the the accuracy of the pitch fader.
If a deck cant hold pitch it is to do with the stabillity of the motor not the accuracy of the pitch fader.
The accuracy of the pitch fader means that your mix may never have actually been 100% right in the first place."
the accuracy of the pitch fader is what I've been talking about from teh beginnign
the fact that the numark one is digital means you can't find the perfect setting on the fader from the beginning
the technics fader is more precise
therefore you stay beatmatched longer
maybe the numark holds its pitch setting as well as the technics (not really since the numark has higher W&F but whatever) but since you can't be as accurate with your pitch setting in the first place it still means it won't hold the match as long
anyways the motor on the tech12 is more stable since the tech12 has lower wow & flutter so your comment is useless
anyhow there's no point arguing any more about this
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