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CandyAss
Senior Member
United States
471 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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 Posted - 2002/12/06 : 11:00:08
Interesting thought if you ask me. I would like to believe they are, but a lot of people may disagree considering all they're really doing is chaining other people's records together. What about turntablism? What exactly is a musician?
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Drew
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saintberry
Senior Member
Australia
358 posts
Joined: Aug, 2002
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Posted - 2002/12/06 : 15:36:56
depends how you play, the average run of the mill dj like ma self i would not call a musician, however someone like Mark N for example, a guy that can break down speedcore =O gets my vote as being a musician, takes the tunes he plays/slices/scratches/breaks/juggles to a next level
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Oli G
Advanced Member
United States
1,817 posts
Joined: Oct, 2001
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Posted - 2002/12/06 : 17:44:56
a dj who beat matches i wouldnt call a musicial
a dj who beat juggles scratches etc, i would
but not basic scratching, thats just a teqnique, compilcated scratching that actualy fits with the tunes :)
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Ultamate
Junior Member
Australia
95 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
19 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/12/06 : 23:12:44
A musician is a person who makes music. A DJ does that so that would make them a musician.
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CandyAss
Senior Member
United States
471 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2002/12/07 : 01:41:51
Some would argue that a DJ is merely playing music that a producer made. Though I suppose turntablists are taking music already created and making a new sound out of it.
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Drew
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dj_stey_iz_ere
Average Member
United Kingdom
227 posts
Joined: Oct, 2002
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Posted - 2002/12/07 : 02:15:46
they mix songs into over songs and make new songs so they r musician
is any1 else on the same level
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DJ Mouse
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,687 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2002/12/07 : 05:12:49
i see myself as a musician,then again i play guitar,bass,keyboards etc
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CandyAss
Senior Member
United States
471 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2002/12/07 : 08:30:04
I also see myself as a musician, though I really don't think it's a big deal if other's don't think so, I was just curious. I play bass & guitar too :)
I think the term musician is too rigidly defined by some people and that maybe anyone who appreciates music on another level and does some work with it structurally could be considered a musician...such as a student in quior class studying music...or a DJ that buys records and plays them together.
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Drew
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mcjutt
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
564 posts
Joined: Jul, 2002
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Posted - 2002/12/07 : 12:07:09
they claim to be, but all their doing are playing peoples records, yes djs do produce and write their own stuff, that makes them musicians, but not beat matching hell no
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Schuby
New Member
United States
34 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2002/12/07 : 16:45:23
DJ's ARE musicians! Turntablism is a form of art! What about the World DMC Championships?
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strychnine
Advanced Member
Australia
2,268 posts
Joined: Feb, 2002
92 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/12/08 : 03:01:40
I agree with everyone who's said that the beatmatching human-jukebox style of DJ does not fall in the category of "musician".
However, there are some DJ's who know their tracks back-to-front and play them in the same way that a pianist uses the keys on a piano, for whom things like fading, cueing, dropping, etc. go beyond their technical definitions and become means to manipulating the raw musical material into a new composition so far removed from its origins that to call it a "set" doesn't seem to do it justice.
And the tracks, though still recognisable, assume a new place within such sets and somehow become more interesting, more vibrant as parts of a greater whole, as if they made more sense as chapters in a story than as stories in their own right, and after hearing them within the set you're left with the impression that they're somehow 'incomplete' on their own - sort of like hearing just the violin component of an orchestral symphony, without the accompaniment of the other sections.
DJ's who can do this are musicians IMO. To say otherwise would be to do insufficient justice to their skill, their mastery of a musical artform, and would disregard their role as composers in the technological age, with their tracklists as their orchestra, the turntables replacing the wand.
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Don Giovanni
Senior Member
Canada
290 posts
Joined: Mar, 2002
43 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/12/08 : 09:35:35
I don't think it could be said better than the way strychnine. Truly great djs play just that way. by the end of the set u feel as though u have been taken on this journey and experienced something...though each track has its own element and feeling it adds to the set together they are something bigger and more profound if done right (just like an orchestra). These are talented beings and no one can take that away from them whether or not people believe them to be musicians
The fight to be recognized as a musician or even a serious artist is always there for djs and even producers. I know many people that will insult the music I listen to...saying that it isn't really music because it’s made by a machine not by a person playing a physical instrument :P
I disagree. To me, music is any sound put together by a human mind in such a way that it is beautiful to the ear of the listener. If it stirs emotion and thought in the user it is music. Besides the synth or computer progs producers use can't just make music on their own...takes the right person to know how to use it to make that music. Just like how a guitar or piano can't make music on its own...u need someone that knows how to use it.
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CandyAss
Senior Member
United States
471 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2002/12/08 : 10:00:31
Well said strychnine! I see what you're saying. I will strive to be that kind of DJ.
And as far as electronic music producers, I would go so far as to say that they're actually more of musicians then people who play instruments. People who play intruments are hitting the same tones and chords that have been played over and over for many years. Producers of avant-garde music though are making many original sounds or at least changing samples beyond their original form. Some of these sounds had never before been heard by the human ear until electronic music came along.
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Drew
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Soren
Senior Member
United States
499 posts
Joined: Mar, 2001
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Posted - 2002/12/09 : 03:53:08
quote:
Are DJs Musicians?
LOL, NO!
quote:
A musician is a person who makes music. A DJ does that so that would make them a musician.
Unless the DJ produced the tracks that they are spinning then they didn't make the music and hence they aren't musicians.
quote:
there are some DJ's who know their tracks back-to-front and play them in the same way that a pianist uses the keys on a piano
That's a very good comparison. If pianos had 2 keys.
quote:
for whom things like fading, cueing, dropping, etc. go beyond their technical definitions and become means to manipulating the raw musical material into a new composition so far removed from its origins that to call it a "set" doesn't seem to do it justice.
If you are talking about beat juggling and stuff then I agree it's amazing. If you are talking about actually EQ'ing the Mids and Treble and crossing beats a bit in a Nu NRG set and basic crap like that then it's damn easy.
quote:
And the tracks, though still recognisable, assume a new place within such sets and somehow become more interesting, more vibrant as parts of a greater whole, as if they made more sense as chapters in a story than as stories in their own right
I see you have practiced for your first interview. It's statments like this that fooled the general populace into thinking that DJ's are somehow great musicians. They aren't. I don't care how smooth you EQ and crossfade a record, if that's all your doing then you aren't doing much and it takes no skill.
quote:
and after hearing them within the set you're left with the impression that they're somehow 'incomplete' on their own
This is like saying if a producer blatantly steals a track and then adds an Acid line over it he is now a master musician cause he added something to the track. Total BS.
No offense to all the DJ's that think they are pushing some kind of envelope, but you aren't. Unless you're a Hip-Hop DJ that's juggling 2 records and scratching a 3rd you aren't doing anything that can't be learned in less than a week. Proof: There was a show in the UK that took a girl off the street and taught her how to DJ in 1 week and then put her out with 2-3 other "Master DJ's" and then had a bunch of (musically inclined) people try and pick the "Fake" and no one could.
Taking 2 pieces of music that other people made and combining them with a single switch is not being a musician. I don't care what genre of music you are in, it's just not. At very best a great DJ might be an artist, but that's about as far as you could push it. It took me a week to learn how to DJ and then I started playing out at a club. 3 years later I never made any mistakes and I could EQ, crossfade, and do little tricks with the best of them. But was I a musician? No.
Oh and on a side note if you buy a sampler and a "Instant Hard House" sample CD and just take a bunch of samples and maybe put in an LFO and a filter here and there and make a track I don't think you are a musician either. But that's all just IMHO of course :D
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Edited by - Soren on 2002/12/09 03:53:54 |
mcjutt
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
564 posts
Joined: Jul, 2002
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Posted - 2002/12/09 : 04:49:03
theres an art to making music not just anyone can do it alot of people can be taught how to cue up 2 records and beat match them fair play it is hard it took me a year to do it properly, but then i discovered making music and boughta yamaha workstation and thats harder than any mix ive done yet, as for this journey the only reason its like that cos every 1s so ****ed and they dont even know where they are let alone what their doing, mcing and music production cant realy be taught, u either goit or u aint, but djing its not that hard 2 learn the basics and then in time to be good at mixing but to end it all realy or ur doing is playing other peoples tunes and thats it realy.
get with my lyrics il make u sweat
im a bad boy mc youll never forget
the quickest mc u evr met
all my competion get set for a rough ride u cant even touch my vibe where all the raving crew tonight
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Soren
Senior Member
United States
499 posts
Joined: Mar, 2001
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Posted - 2002/12/09 : 05:31:44
quote:
mcing and music production cant realy be taught, u either goit or u aint
I totally agree, I also think that GOOD Dj'ing is the same. I've seen people put in months and months (sometimes years) of practice DJ'ing and/or producing, like hours and hours a day, and they just can't do it. They get OK, but not good. I dunno why, it's kind of strange.
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