| Author |
Thread |
|
SPOOX
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,644 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
|
 Posted - 2009/07/18 : 07:55:28
I was just wondering when producing a choon. Where do you start first? I'm not a newbie & definitely not a pro & can put fairly decent choons together but never seem to be able to finish them off how i want them to sound. This is where i thought maybe i'm doing something wrong.
What i mean by where do you start is what part of the choon you begin with? What comes next & so on. I normally start with intro & work my way through to the end. Is this correct or should i be doing it differently?
Alert moderator 
Edited by - Triquatra on 2009/07/18 08:38:36 |
DjSakari
Senior Member
United States
383 posts
Joined: Jul, 2009
|
Posted - 2009/07/18 : 08:19:11
quote:
Originally posted by SPOOX:
I was just wondering when producing a choon. Where do you start first? I'm not a newbie & definitely not a pro & can put fairly decent choons together but never seem to be able to finish them off how i want them to sound. This is where i thought maybe i'm doing something wrong.
What i mean by where do you start is what part of the choon you begin with? What comes next & so on. I normally start with intro & work my way through to the end. Is this correct or should i be doing it differently?
Wrong forum. But to answer your question, I'd start with something basic like Fruity Loops Studio. There are tons of tutorials for it on youtube. To make something sound the way you want, it's basically just trial and error. You need to experiment and see what you can do. I gave up on producing because I could never make good transitions. I practically looped for 5 minutes. I think I made one good track.
__________________________________
aim- xcaseyx93
facebook- www.facebook.com/iamcaseyrobertson
myspace- www.myspace.com/fxxxdrugsclothing
Alert moderator
|
Project-Industrial
Advanced Member
Netherlands
2,481 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005
33 hardcore releases
|
Posted - 2009/07/18 : 08:23:52
well its nice to have some samples to work with if your a begginer. use the search function on this forum to find those topics their beeng named a dosen of times (nd beeing just woken up im to lazy to grab the links lol :P )
you got some samples where u screw up moving towards the end? couse i cant remember if i heared something from you..
when u start a tune .. well it depends what style you going after, assuming you do happy hardcore i think you can do 2 things.make a plain 8x8 beat intro thats building up.. adding more nd more to it then a line of snares or so into a lead or maybe a sudden stop for a vocal.. other idea is (when u have someone for this or are 100% sure u can sing) after 4 bars of lets say 8x8 do 2 more and let a vocalist start singing or do some oeeh ahh stuff like whichs sometimes makes the transmission to a lead go easier...
intro - 4x 8x8 :: start vocalist +2x 8x8 :: 2 lines of vocalist (wet vocals) + bass sort of melody underneat it.. (meaning low tuned draggin synth) :: lead (synth, beat, eventually some vocals)
wot beginners often forget is to get their percussion right.. this is usually wot makes things sounds odd (least for wot i keep hearing).
as hhc aint really my style i have nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo idea wot to suggest as synth :) but im pretty sure orbit1 will ansewr here aswell ;) he seems pretty busy on giving advices lately ;)
and erm.. yes starting with the intro is just fine.. personally i start up an intro work my way to the end.. then change the intro couse the intro is never what i want at first :)
my 2 cents =]
__________________________________
Alias:
- Project Industrial
- Disease
http://www.project-industrial.com
http://www.discogs.com/label/Furious+Monkey+Records
http://www.furiousmonkeyrecords.com/
Alert moderator
|
Starstruck
Advanced Member
Australia
1,152 posts
Joined: Jul, 2008
|
Posted - 2009/07/18 : 08:59:49
Well, i work the same way each time.
I start off from scratch.. I dont use templates, at all. But i do have my own samples made. What i do is start from the bare bones of the track. I make things as i go. I'll make an intro mix in for example, and start off with the kick , whatever else needed. And mix it so everythings clear, i engineer as i go. But if i've got some vocals done, i'll cut them up or whatever and incorperate them. I never ever paste vocals over the top of a produced track.
In a nutshell, i just kinda work as the track progresses. I feel it's the best way that way.
__________________________________
Starstruck - Australia With Force Records
Alert moderator
|
Mortis
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,493 posts
Joined: May, 2004
341 hardcore releases
|
Posted - 2009/07/18 : 09:30:12
quote:
Originally posted by DjSakari:
Wrong forum. But to answer your question, I'd start with something basic like Fruity Loops Studio. There are tons of tutorials for it on youtube. To make something sound the way you want, it's basically just trial and error. You need to experiment and see what you can do. I gave up on producing because I could never make good transitions. I practically looped for 5 minutes. I think I made one good track.
I think you missed the point of Spoox's question.
To answer your question Spoox I've changed the way I work recently. I used to start with an intro and work towards the end like you. Now I just have a blank screen and play with a bassline or a melody and start to work around it. I'll get a few notes down for say a bassline and then place a melody around it, then add some strings or a piano (depending what style of music I'm making) vox etc. Add a basic 4x4 pattern and play it over a few times making changes. Then when I'm happy with what I've got for the main part of my track I'll copy and paste it all to about 10 minutes into the track time and start to drag the bits I've made and make an intro and so on.
I used to add EQ and FX as I was going but I'm trying not to do that now and starting to add them after the basic track layout is finished.
__________________________________
"Maybe in a day and age in which even our rappers can't get to the end of a verse without having an existential crisis, we should find a place for happy hardcore"
Alert moderator
Edited by - Mortis on 2009/07/18 09:31:39 |
Project-Industrial
Advanced Member
Netherlands
2,481 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005
33 hardcore releases
|
Posted - 2009/07/18 : 09:38:15
quote:
Originally posted by Mortis:
quote:
Originally posted by DjSakari:
Wrong forum. But to answer your question, I'd start with something basic like Fruity Loops Studio. There are tons of tutorials for it on youtube. To make something sound the way you want, it's basically just trial and error. You need to experiment and see what you can do. I gave up on producing because I could never make good transitions. I practically looped for 5 minutes. I think I made one good track.
I think you missed the point of Spoox's question.
To answer your question Spoox I've changed the way I work recently. I used to start with an intro and work towards the end like you. Now I just have a blank screen and play with a bassline or a melody and start to work around it. I'll get a few notes down for say a bassline and then place a melody around it, then add some strings or a piano (depending what style of music I'm making) vox etc. Add a basic 4x4 pattern and play it over a few times making changes. Then when I'm happy with what I've got for the main part of my track I'll copy and paste it all to about 10 minutes into the track time and start to drag the bits I've made and make an intro and so on.
I used to add EQ and FX as I was going but I'm trying not to do that now and starting to add them after the basic track layout is finished.
that last part... laying a track first then adding those things.. why would you do that O.o? i mean maybe it makes perfect sence but not to me.. if i'd do that it wud change my whole track while i would try to get something going along the way that sounds nice. not wanting it to get screwed up afterwards due to 'pimping' it with efx
__________________________________
Alias:
- Project Industrial
- Disease
http://www.project-industrial.com
http://www.discogs.com/label/Furious+Monkey+Records
http://www.furiousmonkeyrecords.com/
Alert moderator
|
tru bass
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,996 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
|
Posted - 2009/07/18 : 09:48:32
i get my kick and bass sorted then construct an introduction and a hook to use for the first few bars, then i move onto the breakdown and add something different each time, then i sort out the leads// i then refine for days and days
__________________________________
http://soundcloud.com/shrubman
Alert moderator
|
Mortis
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,493 posts
Joined: May, 2004
341 hardcore releases
|
Posted - 2009/07/18 : 11:19:53
quote:
Originally posted by Project-Industrial:
that last part... laying a track first then adding those things.. why would you do that O.o? i mean maybe it makes perfect sence but not to me.. if i'd do that it wud change my whole track while i would try to get something going along the way that sounds nice. not wanting it to get screwed up afterwards due to 'pimping' it with efx
The reason I do that is because you can get things sounding great and then add another layer or sound and it could mess up the whole mixdown. I.E. the frequency clashes with another sound that you already have sounding good, so you might have to change that sound to fit with the new sound. So then the two sounds you've adjusted could then end up making something else you've got sounding great sound bad and so on. I do minor adjustments as I'm going but most of the work like compression, reverb, delay etc I add towards the end. Sweeps and things don't change the sound of the track that much imo so I don't worry about them until I'm right at the end of the tune. I've had tracks where I've added things as I'm going only to not be able to get a good mixdown at the end and have to remove all of the FX and start again.
It's just the way I'm starting to do things now, I find it a bit easier and also a bit faster.
__________________________________
"Maybe in a day and age in which even our rappers can't get to the end of a verse without having an existential crisis, we should find a place for happy hardcore"
Alert moderator
|
Project-Industrial
Advanced Member
Netherlands
2,481 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005
33 hardcore releases
|
Posted - 2009/07/18 : 12:00:49
quote:
Originally posted by Mortis:
quote:
Originally posted by Project-Industrial:
that last part... laying a track first then adding those things.. why would you do that O.o? i mean maybe it makes perfect sence but not to me.. if i'd do that it wud change my whole track while i would try to get something going along the way that sounds nice. not wanting it to get screwed up afterwards due to 'pimping' it with efx
The reason I do that is because you can get things sounding great and then add another layer or sound and it could mess up the whole mixdown. I.E. the frequency clashes with another sound that you already have sounding good, so you might have to change that sound to fit with the new sound. So then the two sounds you've adjusted could then end up making something else you've got sounding great sound bad and so on. I do minor adjustments as I'm going but most of the work like compression, reverb, delay etc I add towards the end. Sweeps and things don't change the sound of the track that much imo so I don't worry about them until I'm right at the end of the tune. I've had tracks where I've added things as I'm going only to not be able to get a good mixdown at the end and have to remove all of the FX and start again.
It's just the way I'm starting to do things now, I find it a bit easier and also a bit faster.
fair enough.. got ya point :)
__________________________________
Alias:
- Project Industrial
- Disease
http://www.project-industrial.com
http://www.discogs.com/label/Furious+Monkey+Records
http://www.furiousmonkeyrecords.com/
Alert moderator
|
SPOOX
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,644 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
|
Posted - 2009/07/18 : 12:11:16
Thanks for the replies people. Like i said i'm not a newbie but far from a pro & have been learning & producing with Fruity Loops & Cubase for 18 months or so. I just wasn't sure whether i was going about it the right way by starting at the intro & working through to the end.
@ Tru Bass & Mortis. I'll try both your ways next & hopefully will get a choon 100% finished. If i'm happy with it i might post it up for you all to give some more advice.
Alert moderator
|
Hard2Get
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
|
Posted - 2009/07/18 : 14:30:30
quote:
Originally posted by SPOOX:
I was just wondering when producing a choon. Where do you start first? I'm not a newbie & definitely not a pro & can put fairly decent choons together but never seem to be able to finish them off how i want them to sound. This is where i thought maybe i'm doing something wrong.
What i mean by where do you start is what part of the choon you begin with? What comes next & so on. I normally start with intro & work my way through to the end. Is this correct or should i be doing it differently?
Good place to start is with the melody, then create the song around that. Although this is not the ONLY way by any means it's just one of many starting points.
It depends what the track is based on really, if the kind of track you were doing was based around the percussion and general rythem of the track then a good starting point there would be the drums/percussion section to get the kind of rythem you want, then work from there.
Regardless of all that though you should have a clear idea of where you want your track to go, ideally, otherwise you'll just be working aimlessly and it's very easy to not be able to finish stuff that way.
Make a map in your mind of the structure (or write down what you plan to do)of the track and what you want to happen, in such a way that when you think about it it makes you really want to get working on it and get the sound you have going in your mind, then you will have a real goal to work towards and can keep yourself motivated to some degree at least.
The key thing is in whatever way you work is to know what you want and where you are going with the track, and it's even better if it's something you can feel excited about when you think about what your going to do. This way you don't end up getting to a point in the song then not knowing what to do next, or just having something you've done so far and just wanting to scrap it because it's just pointless. Also never scrap an idea just because you think it would not fit into the current Hardcore scene, do whatever the hell you want. The opposite of this is all the pop Trance crap that fills the Hardcore scene currently.
This is no technical way of working though it's just something that i would do myself that may help you for a while, i would normally advise to just learn music theory and arrangement and that sort of thing to get professional results but that's not really a realistic option for most people :P
Alert moderator
Edited by - Hard2Get on 2009/07/18 14:44:03 |
Mortis
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,493 posts
Joined: May, 2004
341 hardcore releases
|
Posted - 2009/07/18 : 15:11:44
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
never scrap an idea just because you think it would not fit into the current Hardcore scene, do whatever the hell you want. The opposite of this is all the pop Trance crap that fills the Hardcore scene currently.
Well said.
__________________________________
"Maybe in a day and age in which even our rappers can't get to the end of a verse without having an existential crisis, we should find a place for happy hardcore"
Alert moderator
|
Future_Shock
Advanced Member
Australia
2,483 posts
Joined: Apr, 2007
|
Posted - 2009/07/18 : 18:02:29
I do all my riffs first. Not synthesize them, just write them.
Then i'll do the kick drum, bass and all the percussion
Then i'll synthesize the riffs and make sure it sits tight with the kick and bass and percussion
Vocals > fx, chopping etc etc
Make the intro, outro and bridge
then breakdown
then the build ups
Then filling all the gaps - fx, snare rolls etc
aaaand im done.
Wait, then i master.
Then i'm done.
__________________________________
New Future Shock Hardcore: https://soundcloud.com/futureshockgroup
Alert moderator
Edited by - Future_Shock on 2009/07/18 18:03:12 |
Moved: 
Printer friendly
