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StrifeII
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,143 posts
Joined: Mar, 2001
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 Posted - 2002/06/17 : 09:59:51
Reakon you'd be good at this nick (of blaze)...ive read where u got that cool water track from...needs a hardcore mix :D so onto the problem...
I'm running low on inspiration for vocals, where do you guys get your inspiration from? im looking for something like shooting star, fly away etc, so do u watch tv or just look at a starry night or summet! Thanx in advance, RJ
Hardcore Will Never Die
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o0sameyeam0o
Senior Member
United States
472 posts
Joined: Mar, 2002
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Posted - 2002/06/17 : 10:53:33
ive alwayz wanted to hear a track about NEVER NEVER land or along those lines....
o0:: MaX rEsPeKts ::0o
SAM EYE AM!
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ICQ: 158003854
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Brian K
Advanced Member
United States
8,663 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
528 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/06/17 : 14:17:02
i've got a track about nowhere land, but no never never land =P
"As punishment for your desertion, it's company policy to give you the plague."
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Brian K
Advanced Member
United States
8,663 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
528 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/06/17 : 16:01:06
why use vocals, use audio snipets from movies. i love when i'm watching a movie and i'll hear an actor say a line and in my head i go "omg that's a sample from such and such record" =P
"As punishment for your desertion, it's company policy to give you the plague."
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"we'll delete the weak"
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pacman
Advanced Member
Australia
1,132 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
190 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/06/17 : 21:34:17
robbie: try to start with the melody then put it into words. start with a simple melody, don't worry about it being simple, as you work it you will change it, add little things and make it more complex. listen to old tunes, tunes with lots of melody. if you really want, steal a vocal hook or a horn lick. like from the middle of someone's verse that nobody will ever recognise, and turn it into your own melody.
are you a musician at all?
drugs is not the answer... drugs? is the question... yes is the answer
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If Yoda so Smart in Force Is, Why Words in Right Order he Put Not?
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Nick of Blaze!
Average Member
United Kingdom
196 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
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Posted - 2002/06/18 : 03:48:39
Hiya bud....
No simple answer I'm afraid, and there's a million ways to get inspiration. But, from personal experience, I can give you a couple of tips.
But first, I do have to clarify something here. You can either write a song you want to be a hit, or a nice melody that would compliment a track. What I mean is, if you're looking to write a song that is likely to get covered and used over and over again by different artists, then read on.
If it's a nice melody you want to write, with maybe a nonsense/meaningless lyric, that just adds to the tune, then this advice isnt any good. Anyone can write a crap lyric. I'm not saying any of my stuff is brilliant, I've got some real SH*TE believe me, but I do try to write something a bit meaningful.
I'm also NOT saying these cant be hits or great tunes, it's just not something I specialise in and in my experience, not something a publisher or another artist would want to use/cover.
OK....
Emotions. Lyrics about emotions are good, and the more widespread emotion (like seperating from a loved one etc) the more people your lyric will appeal to. I recently had a mail from someone saying that Til The Day was absolutely spot on, and that's exactly how she felt at the time. Get that with another 1,000,000 people and you have a hit.
Good lyrics about emotions come from experience I reckon. If you just sit there and write a few lines about losing a pet dog, when you haven't and you're playing GTA3 (TOP GAME) with yer mates, then it'll be crap, unless you are an EXCEPTIONAL lyric writer.
Lose the pet dog, write the track, put into words the awful feelings you have as best you can, and the listener will really believe and sympathise with the loss. Do it right, and the emotion will shine through. Get the right vocalist to put that emotion into a vocal set, and you got a winner.
Other sources of inspiration for me are:
Bookshelves. Walk into a bookshop or library, go to the romantic fiction section, and you have a million great titles for songs. Don't pick something too obvious, and if you're really keen, read the book as well, and write the song about that story.
Surroundings. Shooting Star never came from me seeing a shooting star, it came from me trying to express in a song, a girls urgency and desperation to see a boyfriend and there aint anything quicker than a shooting star. However, surroundings are good for inspiration. "Sailaway" came from me looking at a brilliant blue sky whilst at a crap boring wedding I had to attend. I just wanted to get away from there immediately.
Films. As Brian K says films are great for ideas, although not quite the same as just lifting the vocal from the movie and using that. But using certain lines that sound great is a good idea. "Flower needs the rain" came from a movie. Keep your ears open. You have some of the very best wordsmiths in the world in Hollywood, and they can turn a phrase like you wouldnt believe. I remember watching a movie (cant remember which one) and there was two deaf people doing sign language and one says to the other "You complete me". Great phrase, perfect.
Other songs. OK, difficult one this. I'm NOT saying listen to an album and start ripping it off, but looking at lyric sheets can give you good inspiration for new songs. Also, if you can, get instrumentals of popular songs (like karaoke tapes) and write a complete set of new lyrics/melodies. Write a whole new backing track with new chords/lead lines etc and voila. You have written a song, but backwards.
Miscellaneous ways.
David Bowie writes loads of lines on bits of paper about all sorts of things, puts then in a hat, then pulls them out one by one. Each one after a few minor adjustments goes into the song.
"do dee da da". Get a melody by singing la la phrases. Then change each "do dee dah" into a lyric. This way you get agood feel about how the syllables should sit before you write your words. (John Lennon and Paul McCartney used to write like this)
Clichés.
I love these. These are the little phrases that make up our language. "Take the high road", "Get out of my life"...oh man, there's millions of those. And remeber, if you use a popular phrase, then sing it as close as you can to how you would say it in natural speech. Everytimeyou speak, you are "singing" words. Your voice goes up and down naturally. Incorporate that into your songs. If your asking a question in a song then sing it as if its a question.
Help books:
There are quite a few, but these I recommend.
If you're REALLY serious about learning the craft of songwriting:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0898792835/ref=pd_sim_b_dp/202-5569364-5652663
and also by the same author "The Song Writers Idea Book" but I cant find it anywhere. It might be out of print, but I have this and its excellent.
Rhyming Dictionaries
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140511369/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1/202-5569364-5652663
And from Sammy Cahn, a legendery songwriter. (Writer of one of my favourite songs of all time "You taught my heart to sing".
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0285626469/qid=1024400307/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_3_1/202-5569364-5652663
Thesaurus. Know what you want to say but need an alternative way to say it?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140514228/qid=1024400159/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_3_1/202-5569364-5652663
OK, that'll do ya!
The rest is top secret, and if I tell you, I'll have to kill you cos you'll do me out of my job.
Good luck, and I really hope this long post has helped.
Nick.
PS.. as a footnote, do try not to do meaningless/jibberish lyrics. eg
I walked down the street
Using both my feet
It didnt take me long
So I sat and wrote this song.
Oh man.. just bin it.
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Edited by - Nick of Blaze! on 2002/06/18 03:53:16 |
StrifeII
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,143 posts
Joined: Mar, 2001
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 Posted - 2002/06/18 : 08:14:36
"Sailaway" came from me looking at a brilliant blue sky whilst at a crap boring wedding I had to attend. I just wanted to get away from there immediately."
Thats gotta be the funniest thing i've heard all day, and when you match em up together...
Thanks for all that, so basically i just gotta look around..lol. that rhyming book could come in handy...must get a job first though.
Thanx agen, rj
Hardcore Will Never Die
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pacman
Advanced Member
Australia
1,132 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
190 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/06/19 : 04:16:27
what a resource!!!! that was a good read thanks nick!!!
drugs is not the answer... drugs? is the question... yes is the answer
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If Yoda so Smart in Force Is, Why Words in Right Order he Put Not?
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Kaoticnoise
New Member
United States
47 posts
Joined: Jan, 2002
185 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/06/21 : 10:02:40
Nick is Happy Hardcore GOD!!!!!!
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Oli G
Advanced Member
United States
1,817 posts
Joined: Oct, 2001
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Posted - 2002/06/21 : 17:52:11
that is superb nick
/me runs off to get his mates gf to sing for him
also how much should you pay vocalists
ive been told around 40 fer an average one and up to 150 for a good one
have i heard right/wrong?
Garage Is where You Keep Your ****in Car
House Is where You Live
Hardcore Is HOW You Live
\o/ <o/ \o> <o> /o\ _o/ \o_
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Nick of Blaze!
Average Member
United Kingdom
196 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
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Posted - 2002/06/22 : 01:28:28
Well, strictly speaking, they're professionals like any other professionals. If you employ a plumber for a day, it'll cost you around £80-£100. If employ a really GOOD plumber then you can expect to pay more.
So as with any professional it depends on their previous experience, any success they've had, with their name on your sampler/record increse it's sales because they've got a following etc etc it all depends on so many factors.
Also, it depends on the arrangement you can have with them. For instance, a while ago, I worked with a vocalist for free, because we had a deal where I would promote my songs and prepare all the demos in my studio etc, and she could have a copy of those demos to play to prospective managers/record companies. In other words, we both had plenty to gain, so she hired my studio and I hired her voice for free. Of course if either of us get a deal with those vocals or demos then we have to sort each other out financially, but for the time being, it works well.
However, as a rule of thumb, I would always offer a good vocalist, but with no track record at least £100 for a full song which usually takes around 3-4 hours. If it's just 4 liners like "Flower needs..." or "Oblivion" then its about £50 each tune as they really do take about an hour only to record. Those are session fees and she'll be asked to sign a form transferring the full rights to those vocals over to me. An exceptional vocalist (and Ive paid £500 for a single 4 hour session before now) the price varies, especially if they have a manager !!! LOL.
If she wishes though, she can take a gamble and get in on the royalty side of things and perform for free (well, about £25 expenses like petrol, food etc), then she takes a share of the royalties. Jo James always worked like that.
It all depends on the quality of the vocalist, and how you hammer a deal between you. Do remember one thing though. Each performance a vocalist gives you is a UNIQUE performance. Even if its the same song. Therefore, unlike being able to play the same tune on the same keyboard a thousand times and each time its exactly the same, your vocalist is giving you something far more valuable. Don't be unprofessional, pay what she deserves, and if its a success, she'll work with you over and over again. I think between Jo and myself, we must have recorded around 30 songs in a 5 year period.
Even if she's crap, it's your fault if you get her in studio and she performs for you and her vocals are no good. You shouldn't have gone further than the demo tape. Learn a lesson, ask the right questions before you engage her, but if she records for you, you MUST pay, the amount agreed, even if you dont use her.
Cheers guys,
Nick.
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hardcorevic
Starting Member
United States
5 posts
Joined: Apr, 2002
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Posted - 2002/06/25 : 21:06:56
you son of a beatch sameyam, u heard me freestylin hardcore vocals about never never land man!!! dont bite my artistic talents!!!
toytown lalalalalala
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o0sameyeam0o
Senior Member
United States
472 posts
Joined: Mar, 2002
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Posted - 2002/06/25 : 21:36:53
haha shut up man, you were just replaceing WONDERLAND with never never land from that F & stylez track, beotch
o0:: MaX rEsPeKts ::0o
SAM EYE AM!
[email protected]
ICQ: 158003854
AIM: XxhyperbouncexX
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Respekts
www.distortedtrauma.com
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miss-mitzi
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
608 posts
Joined: Jan, 2002
55 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/06/27 : 04:50:17
iv written some wikkid hhc lyrics but i have a problem
when i sing it sounds like a cat b in drowned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If computer games effected us as kids, we would all be runnin around in dark rooms munchin magic pills and listenin to repetative music!
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If computer games effected us as kids, we would all be runnin around in dark rooms munchin magic pills and listenin to repetative music!
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Underloop
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,895 posts
Joined: Mar, 2002
91 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/06/28 : 03:54:53
Get some1 else to sing it then Mitzi lol Have you written the tune as well, or just the lyrics?
Matthew aka Cyclone/Underloop
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"Wait a minute, thats not the Monsterometer, its the Frog Exagerator"
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"We don't stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing."
- George Bernard Shaw
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Edited by - Underloop on 2002/06/28 03:56:11 |
Oli G
Advanced Member
United States
1,817 posts
Joined: Oct, 2001
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Posted - 2002/06/28 : 10:13:56
hmm, i need to start writing nic stuff, i can only think of pure evilness when i write a tune (look out for a new one on camel records, tune to be previewd in 2 weeks)
Garage Is where You Keep Your ****in Car
House Is where You Live
Hardcore Is HOW You Live
\o/ <o/ \o> <o> /o\ _o/ \o_
__________________________________
Hardcore Underground 4 - Released October 19th
http://www.myspace.com/camelrecords
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