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aznwasian
Senior Member
United States
428 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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 Posted - 2001/06/21 : 20:36:38
Why dont you make a forum where you can  *gasp* post links to mp3's or other sites.... just a suggestion.
aZnWaSiAn
-I can't stop raving...
Edited by - aznwasian on 21 Jun 2001 20:44:42
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DJ Tempest
Senior Member
United States
381 posts
Joined: Apr, 2001
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Posted - 2001/06/21 : 23:55:39
umm because mp3s are killing the underground music scene..well maybe i shouldnt be that harsh, but close. if you like a song so much, show your appreciation for that artist by supporting them and buying it.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."
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"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."
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silver
Admin
Japan
12,565 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2001/06/22 : 01:47:58
Roger that 10-4, yep Tempest is correct, there is not alot of money in making vinyl records, I know alot of hardcore producers and alot of them visit this site as well. Buying the music keeps the scene alive... Most ex-hardcore producers left the scene because they need to buy food and hardcore wasn't selling enough to survive.
Plus it's illegal and I would probally get my hosting account terminated.
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Soren
Senior Member
United States
499 posts
Joined: Mar, 2001
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Posted - 2001/06/22 : 09:53:56
I will once again have to disagree on this point. I think MP3's keep the "underground" stronger by providing tracks ppls couldn't get otherwise, except for on vinyl and mix tapes. BUT... It's very unrealistic to expect ppls to pay $10-12 US for a single, plus buy tables and all the extras especailly calculating in that records and all that are heavy and delicate and MPs's are not. It's too much money and not many ppls can afford it or would be willing to front that kinda cash even if they can afford it. And mixtapes don't send money to the producers either, only the DJ's, so the producers don't get paid for those (except for the the one or 2 records that DJ might have bought from that producer to put on the tape).
MP3's need to be more widely adopted IMO. But in a pay format where u can go to the producers site and download a track for $1-2. That way ppls can still get MP3's, the producers will make money, and the tracks will be cheap enough to purchase. If this were addopted I think it would greatly help the HHC producers and I would be totally against pirated MP3's. But until then MP3's will be traded cause no one wants to spend $200 a month on records when they can get the same stuff in an easier format for free.
But I do agree with not giving links to illegal MP3's off this site, simply because they are illegal and this site rocks and i don't want it shut down. Not worth the risk ^_^
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dj-efeks
Senior Member
Australia
298 posts
Joined: May, 2001
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Posted - 2001/06/22 : 11:15:54
but the fact that there is already a way for people to rip their own mp3s off cd and give them to whoever they like means that any kind of restriction would be basically impossible... dont get me wrong im not saying i disagree with the producers/labels losing money etc, just being logical, you cant control the masses no matter how hard you try... =P
 ...we were taught to believe, that everyone was created equal in the masterplan...
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silver
Admin
Japan
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Posted - 2001/06/22 : 11:53:01
Soren: Sorry I agree that hardcore MP3 files do increase the popularity and get the tracks more well known, but I disagree with all your other points. If you can't afford vinyl then don't buy it because you can't afford it period, get a job so you can afford it, taking the easy way out and saying I can't afford it but I like it so I will pirate it is not an answer. Fact is music isn't free, it's costs alot of money, you have to buy all the equipment, you have to buy all the hardware / software, you have to pay vocalists, studio time, producers, publishers and plus you have to eat. Fact is any underground scene has producers and DJ that are in it for the love, less that 1% of the people in hardcore actually see money in the end, it's all about love and commitment, giving your music away doesn't pay, no one is greedy here, people have to live, buy more equipment and pay for web sites like happyhardcore.com out of their own pocket and no one can lose money forever, to break even is everyones dream, that is all anyone really wants.
Vinyl is easier to break that MP3's sure, but I have no problem in someone buying their vinyl and then recording it to MP3 and listening to that.
Yes mixtapes are not sending money back to the artist, because at most the DJ would sell about 100, lets say there is 20 tracks on the tape, say 1 producer per track, so that producer would get 1/20 of the profit after whole cost is covered, if you sell the tape for $10, it costs you $2.00 per tape and the DJ figures he wants to make $5.00 per tape to make that is:
((0.05 * ($10 - ($2 + $5))) * 100) = $15.00 dollars (per track / producer)
There is an unwritten rule normally not to include a track list on a mix tape, for this reason, the money made on mix tapes goes back into the DJ who in turn will use that money to buy more records (more money for the producer).
If producers can sell their material on some sort of napster program then that is great, power to it, as long as it is safe and can't be copied (I know nothing is impossible to copy)... so until the time of quantum encryption it will have to remain the same.
I just don't want to see artist turn away from hardcore because it is not worth the time on the return in creating a hardcore track and I think most people would agree with that.
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aznwasian
Senior Member
United States
428 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2001/06/22 : 15:38:37
Well Ise MP3s to first see if i like the music, then if I like it then I will by the vinal.
aZnWaSiAn
-I can't stop raving...
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virus
Advanced Member
Canada
4,346 posts
Joined: May, 2001
716 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2001/06/22 : 18:22:40
im always amazed at how many people can't spell 'vinyl'
i don't see why you couldn't expect people to pay $10-12 for a record.. they'd pay that much for an import cd single anyway..
adam
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DJ Tempest
Senior Member
United States
381 posts
Joined: Apr, 2001
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Posted - 2001/06/23 : 07:14:38
yeah no doubt...and vinyl sounds 10 times better 
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."
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IzzyLightdancer
New Member
United States
46 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2001/06/23 : 11:47:39
I agree with silver. there is no way to make something completely un copy-able. I like that mp3s let me hear the misuc on my comp. but I would much rather listen to the misic on a BAD ASS home system.
P.S. Who cares About spelling?!
Izzy
RUle 4 - NEVER monkey with another monkey's monkey! - so sayth The Rule book of IZZY
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RUle 4 - NEVER monkey with another monkey's monkey! - so sayth The Rule book of IZZY
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Soren
Senior Member
United States
499 posts
Joined: Mar, 2001
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Posted - 2001/06/25 : 09:38:08
All just my opinions (And I realize im wrong a lot!):
Silver: I don't think ur math is correct. The DJ pays for the track only once. The producer gets profit from that track only when the DJ buys the track. There is no payback per tape to producers...??? DJ's keep all the profit.
Telling ppls to get a job to buy tracks is just silly IMHO. Many of the ppls interested in HHC and tracks and what not are high school/college students. Many of them have jobs already and need to pay rent and eat. They can not pay $10 a track + Tables. They simply can't afford it. I'd say prob about half of the ppls that want tracks are in this type of situation.
The only solution is to afford a better/cheaper medium to them so they can still get tracks, just at a reduced cost and reduced effort to producers. Maybe getting a crack programmer to design a new type of MP3 player for HHC producers is an answer? Like maybe code the MP3's out to the IP's of the users and also the player, so tracks would only work on the computer they were downloaded to....???
I am totally not trying to defend ppls that pirate tracks BTW. They all need to die horrible deaths or something :) I am simply trying to be logical about it. Until we can control MP3's or another medium some how producers will just not get paid by 99% of the ppls listening to their tracks... it's sucky, but it's a fact.
PS: Just to let U all know so ur not pissed at me for pirating I have about 8-10X more vinyl than I have MP3's. The only reason i download MP3's is to check the tracks out so I can go buy them, then I delete the MP3's cause ill never listen to them once i have the record. ^_^
Edited by - soren on 25 Jun 2001 09:49:32
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Happy Hardcore makes me feel like a Koala bear just crapped a rainbow in my brain.
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silver
Admin
Japan
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Posted - 2001/06/25 : 12:46:03
Soren: Yes you are correct about the tapes, I was jsut making an example IF the DJ was to officially licence the tracks and pay the cash.
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Soren
Senior Member
United States
499 posts
Joined: Mar, 2001
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Posted - 2001/06/25 : 13:21:21
K, just checking ^_^ Thought maybe there was some protocol for making tapes that I didn't know about :)
Also, im totally not trying to be a bitch about this. I just don't think you can expect 99% of ppls to pay $10 a track when they can get it free. Im just trying to think of alternatives so ppls still can get their tracks and producers can actually get paid for them. Im not sure how much a typical producer gets from record sales, but im guessing about $2 a record sold??? So if we could figure out a way to control MP3's or just sell them as pre release or something at $1-2 each then maybe U could get a lot more money to the producers...???
If I knew any HHC producers I would suggest this to them, but I don't. Maybe try to get all the producers to put their stuff through one HHC MP3 clearinghouse site that they could all advertise from their sites, so there would be one big site that everyone knew about where U could go and purchase tracks and support the scene. Maybe push that idea hard. That by going there U are actually supporting the HHC scene instead of hurting it. I think a lot of ppl would be open to the idea as long as you don't try and charge a ton. Also, ppls could offer back catalogs fairly easily and make more money off old tracks without having to do anything but encoding the track. If you offered ppls the chance to actually pay and support their scene it would be better than now where the only way to get MP3's of ur fav tracks is to steal them or spend exorbinate amounts of money to get them. Just my thoughts!!!
^_^
Edited by - soren on 25 Jun 2001 13:31:21
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Happy Hardcore makes me feel like a Koala bear just crapped a rainbow in my brain.
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silver
Admin
Japan
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Posted - 2001/06/25 : 20:49:01
Soren: You don't make any serious money from vinyl releases, only getting onto CD's and CD complications do you see some larger amounts of money. If you own your publish rights, the record label and the recording of the track then you stand to make about $2.00 a record, most artists sign away their publishing rights and loose a packet of money to the record label...
I don't think MP3 files of HHC artists would increase sales, the files are just too easily copied, I don't think it would work.
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Soren
Senior Member
United States
499 posts
Joined: Mar, 2001
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Posted - 2001/06/26 : 08:13:39
DARN!!! lol Yeah, you're probably right...
*Soren goes back to the drawing board*
hmmmm...
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Happy Hardcore makes me feel like a Koala bear just crapped a rainbow in my brain.
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IzzyLightdancer
New Member
United States
46 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2001/06/26 : 15:04:18
Were not trying to come down on you soren, and I totally agree with on wanting to here the music before you buy it. p.s. I went to dark star!
RUle 4 - NEVER monkey with another monkey's monkey! - so sayth The Rule book of IZZY
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RUle 4 - NEVER monkey with another monkey's monkey! - so sayth The Rule book of IZZY
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